Would these sea steads have a military?


#33

and …


#34

… and, yet, all of these “solicitations from investors” by Elmo are not a “commercial”. :open_mouth::smirk::stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


#35

But … but … but … sputter, sputter …

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes::stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes::stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


(Wilfried Ellmer) #36

@BobDohse | Is there a debate worty point behind the clutter ? or or is your intention just trolling and disturbing here ? Anything smart to say why seasteads should / should not have a military and how it might look like ?


**Context:** 7.5 billion people on the planet means "[millions of nutcases](https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/seasteading-cafe/1917/19)" all connected to this thread - the question is - do we really want to argue with all of them ? - [or do we limit](https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/evolutionary-context-seasteading-ocean-colonization/1941/14?u=ellmer) ? ...for the sake of progress.
| attack personal animosity etc in the [Cafe](https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/seasteading-cafe/1917) please - keep the threads on topic | negativity attack as [contributions](https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/picture-the-ramform-get-invested-get-started-oceanic-business-alliance/640/312?u=ellmer) not prone to create a positive future | why seasteading is [underevaluated](https://discuss.seasteading.org/t/seasteading-is-underevaluated-as-investment-field-fix-that-perception-error/183) by investors | **Hypothesis:** Overhang of AmmoMilitary (and other) nonsense talk on the forums (during the last 10 years) could be a possible reason... |

SRS (SRL) - the first project
(Gavin Brown) #37

Spot on, and as you say I would have a star trek style training academy for everyone so if required everyone could chip in but would have their own specialities.


(Matias Volco) #38

This is a pressing problem in a completely interconnnected and somewhat free world, as Kurzweil said: it’s like a million fingers on the nuclear button.
We are progrssing towards being on the same boat (which becomes smaller by the day), or “spaceship Earth”.
If human success on the long run depends on colonizing other planets (diversifying), then in the immediate future it depends on fully exploring and diversifying wiithin this planet, beyond the atmosphere

The first season of ammo-realted Tv show “The Last Ship” provides a good example of such human habitat diversification: a long range seagoing vessel providing a compartiment that survives a World Pandemic unscathed and unnoticing.


Oceanic Real estate | global networking hubs | Extraterritorialized | oceanic business alliance
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Picture the Ramform | get invested | get started | oceanic business alliance
Galt's Gulch is on the oceans | oceanic business alliance
Oceanic Real estate | global networking hubs | Extraterritorialized | oceanic business alliance
Picture the Ramform | get invested | get started | oceanic business alliance
Real Estate Paradigm Shift | oceanic business alliance | oceanic real estate | floating real estate |
Galt's Gulch is on the oceans | oceanic business alliance
#39

If you don’t want people to point out that you are lying, Wilfried Ellmer …

… then don’t post your lies in THIS comment thread.

If you don’t want people to point out that you are posting commercials for your private scheme, Wilfried Ellmer …

… then don’t post your commercials in THIS comment thread.

Simple enough, even for you, Elmo. :open_mouth:


#40

And, yet, here we are, debating Elmo’s commercials …

… because ELMO has to somehow defend the real reason for his posts …

… that are merely commericals for his private “investment” scheme.

Elmo claims to be above the fray and will stick strictly to “security” …

and yet he posts commercials …

… while telling others to go to a different thread to criticize Elmo’s commercials.

Yeah … sure, Elmo. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes::stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes::stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


#41

Your turn, @Elmo.

Dazzle us with more of your brilliant rhetoric …

… that demonstrates your are posting commercials …

… even in the very posts where you deny that your posts are merely commercials for you private “investment” scheme.

You are so full of it, Elmo …

… that your eyes are turning brown. :open_mouth:


(Wilfried Ellmer) #42

@BobDohse | please explain :slight_smile:
• what part of not clutter nonsense do you not understand ?
• what part of no attention until you say something intelligent do you not understand ?
• what part of scientific debate only do you not understand
• what part of debate culture do you not understand
• what part of nutcase best attended by ignoring do you not understand ? -


Evolve, or just go away and play somewhere else…


Seasteading Invest | the big five of ocean colonization | investment yield 10%+ | oceanic business alliance
Oceanic Real estate | global networking hubs | Extraterritorialized | oceanic business alliance
Breakaway Civilization | Seasteading | Ocean Colonization | Advanced Oceanic Cities | Atlantis | Enlightenment | Oceanic Business Alliance | next big thing in business
SRS (SRL) - the first project
Picture the Ramform | get invested | get started | oceanic business alliance
Galt's Gulch is on the oceans | oceanic business alliance
Oceanic Real estate | global networking hubs | Extraterritorialized | oceanic business alliance
Picture the Ramform | get invested | get started | oceanic business alliance
Real Estate Paradigm Shift | oceanic business alliance | oceanic real estate | floating real estate |
Galt's Gulch is on the oceans | oceanic business alliance
Oceanic Real estate | global networking hubs | Extraterritorialized | oceanic business alliance
Real Estate Paradigm Shift | oceanic business alliance | oceanic real estate | floating real estate |
Oceanic Real estate | global networking hubs | Extraterritorialized | oceanic business alliance
Breakaway Civilization | Seasteading | Ocean Colonization | Advanced Oceanic Cities | Atlantis | Enlightenment | Oceanic Business Alliance | next big thing in business
Breakaway Civilization | Seasteading | Ocean Colonization | Advanced Oceanic Cities | Atlantis | Enlightenment | Oceanic Business Alliance | next big thing in business
Breakaway Civilization | Seasteading | Ocean Colonization | Advanced Oceanic Cities | Atlantis | Enlightenment | Oceanic Business Alliance | next big thing in business
#43

@ellmer The point he is making is: THIS is not YOUR forum, nor your personal advertizing space FOR your forums, OR your schemes. If you HAD those investors, you would NOT be in here, begging for attention and then demanding money from those that you convince to join.

NOW, back to the topic of military on seasteads…

Consider design principles employed, even by Leonardo Da Vinci (and, YES, he even designed several Forts). Controlling access, and defensive posture are the primary purpose of a Fort.

A SMALL position could be well defended by a single person, or very small group, depending on the size of an attacking force, and their goals.

It has to be assumed that the object is command and control of the vessel, otherwise, sink it and be done with it. Pirates want ransom, terrorists want publicity, possibly hostages, and may want to use the vessel in a greater attack role.

In the adaptation of a vessel capable of handling major storm activity, I am trying not only to emulate the known capabilities of the Ramform, as designed by Roar Ramde, and proven in the North Sea, but as part of that, following the design principles of Frank Kowalski and Safehaven Marine, which makes modest military patrol vessels capable of rolling completely inverted, self-righting, and continuing the mission.

Some of that is structural integrity. Part of that creates a more defensible position, since there are a limited number of openings, all facing aft, and the only forward openings are sealed compartments, and the armored glazing for the cockpit/control-room/cabin. Aft hatches are reinforced and completely securable from within.

Further, many modern sailing vessels have multiple command and control consoles. Some are designed such that a command override from a secured cabin can operate the entire vessel from within a sealed and armored vault-like structure, comparable to an inner citadel, within castle fortifications.

A properly designed vessel can be made that is fully operable, by a single individual, in all foreseen situations. Certain automated motor/sailer yachts also follow that design principle.


#44

@Elmo

… what part of not clutter nonsense - e.g., your commercials for your “investment” schemes - do YOU not understand?


(Larry G) #45

https://www.ruraltraining.org/training/courses/awr-144/

Being an emergency and disaster preparedness professional, I regularly seek out things like the above course. Attended last year. I also have a number of professional contacts involved in maritime security. From my perspective, it’s funny how lots of people opine on things that they clearly have no clue about.


#46

Yes there are plenty that attempt to be THE authority figure, with no knowledge. At least I"ve researched for my own concepts. There are plenty of ways to sink a vessel, even starve one out. A secure cabin with secure controls, coms, and backup food, water, and medical supplies is about as good as a smaller vessel can do.


(Matias Volco) #47

Would these Seasteads have Diplomacy? How about economic gravitas to make the city stand above nation states?

Put it another way, Do you comrades believe the Saya de Malha, or Isola d’lle Rose attempts failed while Sealand survived because of better paramiitary training or some other factor?


(Mariusz) #48

I think diplomacy will be more important than military force. Each seastead, or floating city will need to have its small security force, but by diplomacy they will be able to achieve so much more, especially if they can provide some valuable products to the rest of the world.
It’s also reasonable to say that some seasteads will join forces at some point and form some kind of United Federation of Seasteads :slight_smile:
But I think we’re still “few years” from that day.


(Matias Volco) #49

I also bet on the Star Trek model instead of Star Wars.


#50

General question for all: If a libertarian seastead has no government, how would diplomacy be handled? Wouldn’t each individual person interact independently with any foreign threat?

It seems an oxymoron to think you can have no government and also appointed or elected diplomats.


(Mariusz) #51

Libertarian does not mean anarchist.


(Matias Volco) #52

Nevermind JW’s gratuitious context dropping, it certainly could mean just that, or in biological terms, spontaneous organization.

Clearly you’ve never been part of a Homeowners Association, for which I certainly envy you, but it does make me wonder what was the densest place you’ve inhabited. I do know that you have gone on cruise ship. In that situation you had a cruise host or hostess that could take the (multi-national) passengers’ collective bargains to the captain, shipping line, or in extreme circumstances, insurance company.