What defines success for a seastead?

(Wilfried Ellmer) #48

• | seasteading many colores many tastes |

I am not really here to explain anything to the segment you represent nor to have any kind of argument with you ( i am here for the 827 "silent other users ") - Have a nice day, take an empathy hugg and …

Good Luck in all your Ventures

(.) #49

Well, if that would be true, than why are you doing a dialog with her in the first case?
And why did you have to write these lines? @ellmer

(.) #51

So, the word ‘stupid’ is a bit hostile, so is ‘a$4 f’ . It is inconvenient for me to engage
in dialogs like that. I would like to observe that, other people do not use English as their
native language, and they might be reluctant to converse with words like that, because
they are unable to estimate the hostility level. At home, it is OK.

(.) #52


I did have shed like that in my backyard, two of those. I demolished them.
The woman could live in the house, but the shed cannot be in my backyard.

I do not have any dogs or cats. I have fish for pets, I keep them in the ocean.

(.) #55

Looks good for the river. I have got to go into the ocean.

(.) #56

so I got a warning from the robot:

"Let others join the conversation
This topic is clearly important to you – you’ve posted more than 20% of the replies here.

Are you sure you’re providing adequate time for other people to share their points of view, too?"

best regards to all;


Something collapsed and lost buoyancy. It happens to Semis submersibles, too.

(Larry G) #60

It is very difficult to get a conventional mortgage on a floating home. Most people have to come up with more expensive financing (personal loans) or pay cash.

This has a couple practical effects. It encourages a large disparity between quality of floating homes between the upper and lower end. It also creates an inaccurate impression of an expensive or wealthy lifestyle, even for the modest end of things.

In my area, floating homes and floating boathouses are licensed and regulated as a special class of vessels. They are not subject to property tax because they are not real property (real estate), they are personal property like a vessel or vehicle. Even when you own the water rights beneath your home, it is not a deeded property, it is more like belonging to an HOA.

(Torrey Jones) #61

I don’t think he bashing anyone in the context of this thread. I don’t think he’s even talking down about anyone here. In case you’ve forgotten, this thread is about figuring out what defines success for a seastead. If, as discussed previously, independence is a key consideration, then the floating village of 10 houses lashed together, while it is a nascent seastead, is still not successful because they have low independence.


That cannot be inferred from the available information. They are there. period. That they succeeded in building and connecting together is indicative of success. As a floating fishing village, they appear to be succeeding at their own level. Our definition of success cannot be applied, to judge their level of success, in their environment.

Success is not some outside approval, but is defined by the person making the effort.

Take my stated goal of creating an Incubator Site, if it happens and meets some of the stated goals, it will be deemed a success by many. If it fails in my ultimate goals, regardless of the success perceived by others, then it can be seen as a failure, as well.

(Larry G) #63

If I were defining my own criteria for success:

  • Permanent living space. Not intended or designed for temporary or rotational tours, but able to support long term lifestyles amounting to years and generations. Lifestyle means some degree of comfort, not necessarily equivalent square footage/cubic, but enough to be home, not just shelter.
  • Supports gainful employment somehow. Either home/farm/ranch style business, or commuting to some kind of employment such as regional fishing or seafood processing. Some sort of equivalent to seaside towns.
  • Supports raising of families. Has to have access to all of the things families require- play space, living space, education, physical needs for exercise and emotional health through human activities not specifically related to employment.
  • Safety. The platform can reasonably be expected to shelter inhabitants from the dangerous aspects of the ocean, in most weather conditions (at least equivalent to small, low-lying islands).
  • Legal recognition. Whether it is an independent micro nation, member of the UN, a flagged vessel, or some other category of vessel/platform/association, it is not considered a pirate by lawful navies nor free game for any passers-by to plunder and enslave. Inhabitants retain equivalent personal rights to citizens of recognized nations and are not treated as stateless persons are now treated (refugee or worse, criminal status)

I think just about everything else fits into one of these 5 requirements.

(Torrey Jones) #64

I disagree, there is a great deal of information available on the internet about the river people of the Mekong Delta and several documentaries have been published about them as well. I wouldn’t really call it a seastead myself, as it’s not on the sea, but it does float and can move, which is why I called it nascent, as it could be viewed as a predecessor to what would be consider a seastead.

True, but the point of discussions like this is to find out what commonality can be found between the individual definitions.

(.) #65

Some of the headlines about the building:

"Barge hits waterfront restaurant.

911 call at 11PM, waterfront restaurant breaks loose.

Jeff Ruby’s waterfront sitting on the bottom of Ohio."

“Ruby tweeted a photo of the Waterfront Tuesday morning:
Just another day in paradigm pic.twitter.com/BcqX5fMCMh
— Jeff Ruby (@TheRealJeffRuby) August 5, 2014”


Sorry about your loss Mr. Ruby.

(Chad Elwartowski) #69

A successful seastead requires some sovereignty. That’s what differentiates between a seastead and a houseboat.

The ultimate success is full sovereignty.

(.) #78

“the barge hit it in 2012. It went down in 2014. The two events may be unrelated.”

Yes. Reasonable: may be unrelated.


I agree, but not the way you plan to define Sovereignty.

A Seatead as a Nation plans to have a Sovereign Government. The individuals that make up that Nation may have some Sovereignty, but they are not the Supreme Authority on that vessel.

Each of us will have Sovereignty over ourselves and, as Captains of our vessels, we are the ultimate Supreme Authority on those Vessels that we own and operate, regardless of Nation of Registry, Citizenship, etc.

(Chad Elwartowski) #80

For me the ultimate goal is individual sovereignty.

Most people fear that. If I actually typed what that means people would go into hysterics.

(.) #81

Or you might have to move it to the off topic section. -))
I am interested about what you think of individual sovereignty as an ultimate goal.

(Torrey Jones) #82

Fair point, but my point still stands.