What defines success for a seastead?


#1

It all depends of what the definition of “successful” is, when related to seasteading. There seems to be a consensus here (believe it or not :smile: ) that achieving a high degree of self-sufficiency and autonomy would equate to “successful”.


UK Physicist wanting to learn more about seasteading
(.) #2

I agree. (Post must be 20 characters or more.)


(Wilfried Ellmer) #3

@Philip_Mousley | Our group is absolutly not part of this “alleged consensus” (and i doubth that 700 silent forum listeners are…)

Our Group belives in the New-VENICE style business model - insulation in preper style self-sufficiency is the LEAST a seastead should point at.


Seasteading is about vibrant, floating, international, progressive minded, port, global trade support, infrastructure cities, which are subdue to nobody, politicly autonomous, and trade and interchange with everybody ... take the historic model of Venice The Floating City - to get the big picture what successful on oceanic trade means...or take the British oceanic Empire and the East India Company, the Spanish Empire - all built entirely on oceanic trade...
Workhypothesis : this kind of sectarian vermicomposting, homesteading, undedog, talk is shuing the much needed serious investors from the seasteading scene (a big problem)...this is not doing a service to the seasteading movement in general...
Far from being declared consensus this kind of talk should be confined to the "extreme sectarian seasteading" topic...in the "wild idea" category...

google up | what needs to be done to make seasteading investment worthy |



(Kim Cowdroy) #4

Your dream sounds good. However, you want to be politically autonomous AND economically dependent. This seems like high-risk to me, especially when it is all about trade agreements these days, and you will not be a recognised country to even engage in such negotiations.

You do not go from zero to empire overnight! Seems more feasible to start with the most basic seastead, and ensure the inhabitants can survive remotely by themselves.

Of course if you can convince investors to part with very large amounts of money to create some big marine business then well and good, but I have to agree with Octavian, Spark and a number of others, on a high degree of self-sufficiency and autonomy equating to success.

On the contrary, I think dreamy talk of mega investments should be left in the “wild idea” category for now, lest it puts off potential genuine seasteaders.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #5

@Cowboy | Great so why don´t you do it your way and tell me how it went…the best of luck to you and your venture - and happy vermicomposting !


The good thing is, we don´t have a need to take any decision on which model is prefered, all can be tried out and the future will tell what prospers. SEGMENTATION is the key. Multi faceted competing development piplines are the best way to progress - consensus is not necessary and must not be (misleadingly) declared on anything...stop fighting start seasteading...

you are welcome if you think “genuine sesasteading is about self sufficiency and vermicomposting” - i don´t - let´s be friends anyhow…you do it your way … i do it my way… have a nice day.


(.) #6

Wow, it must be early morning in Australia: Good Morning to you!
And it is Sunday there, March 25, I feel left behind.


(.) #7

And in Cartagena, Columbia , it is about 1:30 PM. Good afternoon to you Sir!
And it is March 24, Saturday.


(noboxes) #8

Venice was about how money was used, the loopholes in the banking system (especially across borders), and religion and politics. Once Egypt, Greece, Spain, etc put things on a boat, it was easier to ship directly to each other than to go up and down from Venice. Just look at a map. The islands off southern Italy were better located for transshipping trade items. If that is all that is required, the Carribean islands should be wildly prosperous, shifting cargo north and south to/from the Panama Canal. But they aren’t, they are some of the poorest places on earth, because for the most part they are not even self sufficient.

And despite how many times you say it, Venice is still not floating, it’s a stilt city built in a swamp. There’s just no visable swamp left. Venice cannot physically grow outwards without very deep piers or floating, and it has built neither.

The same way the Dutch East Indies company was formed, and then all the other companies of other countries, it was built on how shipping was financed and goods distributed to buyers on land, and the politics of who got funding …… that’s what built the big trading from years 1100 to 1800. You and TSI do not have the $billions to pull off the shenanigans required to start a trade war against the players of today.


(.) #9

consensus is not necessary

It is not necessary, nor it is forbidden.


#10

Oh yeah,

Let’s all give a round of applause to the exclusive, self serving, “imperial seasteading ideology”.


(.) #11

I wish him good luck!


(Kim Cowdroy) #12

Of course! We should all be friends here, since we have a similar purpose, even though we each approach it from different angles.

But when one tries to talk up their own approach by putting down other people’s approaches and trying to stifle alternate commentary, well … no big deal, but I think it needs to be called out.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #13

context: what defines a seastead in first place | the many colors many tastes of seasteading |


don´t feel "talked down" when somebody does not share your religous believe sistem or says "not to be OK with your religion to be declared default and consensus" and presents a antithesis ... don´t get hostile...just accept plurality and move on...

(noboxes) #14

It is not that way anywhere, in any topic. Today i learned some people say an acceptable boat for seasteading must be truckable on the highway. Last year i learned some people believe a boat should serve only one purpose. Just about every month i learn one place cannot be a marina, a boatyard, a nautical store, AND boaters’ long-term car parking. So…@Philip_Mousley, yeas, that’s another thing about seasteading : climbing over opinions, or avoiding the people that have them. It’s like a tree covered in leaves, and each leaf has a problem with all the other leaves. Except for @spark.


#15

It’s not the “some people” who say that but the laws of the State you live in. The States don’t know and they don’t care about seasteading, yet. (Maybe when a quarter of Florida will be under water, they might start paying attention,…)

But they do regulate “how big” you can tow on a public highway.

And that regulation is OK by me. What if anybody can tow a 3 lanes wide, 100’ long boat, seastead, on a public highway whenever they want? Total gridlock.


(noboxes) #16

Sure, but then why is it wrong to tow that same outline of a boat in pieces, which do not need a “boat yard” to assemble?


(noboxes) #17

At every point between the OEM and consumer that you move an object, it costs you money. You pay for labor, storage, the hoisting machinery, taxes, site rental, etc… The object is also exposed to damage thru dropping, theft, environmental impacts, and simply forgetting where it was put.

Shipping companies want to minimise this opportunity for damage, it’s what led to containerised systems developing in the first place. Containers are single units, sent from a single source to a single destination. Many containers are grouped together, and travel the same route. Routes may be extended, or otherwise altered.

Can you point to even one place where a container ship docks, the boxes opened, the contents extracted and shuffled around and put back into other boxes, and loaded aboard another ship?

Because the only other good reasons to have great amounts of container shipping dock to you is you being the manufacturer of the box contents or you consuming the contents of the boxes. And a startup seastead isn’t going to have a large industry (like an oil rig) or a huge rich consumer base (like a cruise ship).

Please name ONE reason anyone would finance you to build a floating commercial dock outside everyone’s EEZ, and it will be a

Or, maybe you will have a barren uninhabited floating island in the middle of nowhere, exactly like we already have 1000’s of uninhabited islands already. Minerva comes to mind. Only one of the Pitcarins is inhabited, Henderson Island is 15 sq miles on deep water and there’s no global trade port there. Over half the islands of French Polynesia are totally uninhabited. None of the Chandeleur Islands is inhabited. What do the Azores do that would justify building more of them?


#18

Wrong? I have no clue what you are talking about. I thought we are talking legality here.

In Florida, I can build ANY floating structure that I want, certify it with the Coast Guard, float it, and sail it into the sunset.


(noboxes) #20

You had made fun of me for having a boat that was trailered in pieces. And then your 20 years of experience said i needed a boatyard to reassemble it.


#21

You do as you wish. Best of luck to you.