The Tahiti Seastead convention

(Wilfried Ellmer) #21

What means that TSI mobilized far more (when you include other costs) than 400.000 USD towards a project that is basicly “come and talk about my project” - considering that most startups do not mobilize more than 50 k to their project as a whole in the “Angel Round” (54) - allone this archievement is IMPRESSIVE and makes TSI a star among start ups i would say.

Add the 1.2 M from Thiel and you have the size their critics need to achieve to be “endorsed and competent” to critize their venture…so let´s face it - Randy and Joe are doing a great job and this even applies if absolutly nothing else comes out of the event.

If you put a money equivalent on the “press mentions” their achievement is even more impressive.

Real Estate Paradigm Shift | oceanic business alliance | oceanic real estate | floating real estate |

Hi Chad, good job reporting from the Convention.

I do have a question. Where is the proposed site? I mean, can you pinpoint it more precisely on the Bora Bora map?

(Chad Elwartowski) #23

Coordinates I can estimate from my phone map is here:



On Google Earth that’s pretty off…No worries, I was just curios.

(Chad Elwartowski) #25

While yesterday was more pushing community and was more political, today was more of a focus on how seasteading can help improve the environment and help end hunger, poverty etc. Still political.

One good speech was on nano technology and not just high level theoretical stuff but actual drone boats made from the new material in use today.

In the evening we went out on 3 catamaran party boats. We got out a bit and attached the boats together and had a big seastead party.

(Chad Elwartowski) #26

Today we took a tour of the island and Randy adressed peoples’ questions.

On tariffs I believe the government concern was that it has to be fair. You can’t sell cartons of cigarettes to locals and such with no tariffs killing the revenue of local stores. But I believe they will treat tariffs to the seastead as autonomous but likely with some qualifiers for things such as the above example. I believe this might include materials for construction.


No FP taxes. It appears to be an economic free zone while still subject to French criminal laws.

The goal is to simplify the visa status and have it be seperate. This is likely going to be tricky as this falls under French jurisdiction.

I gave the location but will give a better site when I get my computer charged (voltage here is 220).
Geophysical? I believe the depths were as deep as 20m and some areas only 1-2m in the proposed area.

I would imagine you would have to use the flag of a nation. They did not address this.

I believe this is wide open as long as you are not breaking French criminal code.

They are also negotiating a land portion of the SE zone where they will lease waterfront land from the government for the purpose of building the seasteads.

From what I could gather, Blue Frontiers will be the company building the prototype and getting the ball rolling but they will not have a monopoly on the zone (I think, this part still confuses me a bit). The wording was that any company could participate but Blue Frontiers is positioned in such a way that it will mainly be them, but that others could likely go through the process as well (again, still fuzzy but things are still in early stages anyway so nothing is for sure).

Again. This is all just the beginning stages so things would likely change and of course politics is involved so logic should not be expected.

(Chad Elwartowski) #27

Final day, several more speeches. A couple of french folks speaking about their projects. More environmentalists. Some good speeches on cryptocurrency, Special Economic Zones, and potential architecture of the seasteads. Nothing concrete yet ( :wink: ).

Afterwards we went to the president’s place. He gave a speech talking about how grateful he is that we are here for the conference, etc. Mentioned that we need to include the Tahiti people and the youth in our projects and that we need to respect the environment, etc.


Great stuff, Elwar. I just have a few questions.

  1. How will France be involved in this project, and how would France approve the deal in French Polynesia, with decrees or does it have to go through the French parliament?
  2. Any word on what the legal and regulatory framework of the first seastead will be like, what kinds of laws will they be and from what sources will those laws come from? I especially want to know the seastead’s legal position on intellectual property, drug and labour laws, and what their tax policy might be.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #29

@Elwar | I too have a couple of questions:

• What is your overall impression ?

• What do you think will happen next ?

• Do you think your 4 K spent on the Event was money well invested ?

• If you take the convention visitors as potential investors, was this a successfull phase 1 investor conversation did they get effect A or effect B from the convention visitors?

• On a scale 1-10 what notes would you give ?

Let me hear your thoughts…


(Larry G) #30

Related to @ellmer’s attendee question:

How closely did the list of expected speakers and attendees from TSI’s website match up with actual?

Of the unpublished attendees/audience, roughly what percentage do you think were simply enthusiasts/hobbyists vs people who work in marine construction industry or related? Do you think any of them were just using a business expense justification for a Tahitian vacation? :smirk:

Anybody else there who participates in the forum? Anyone acknowledge the forum? (I expect not, just curious.)

Thank you, on behalf of those of us who could not attend, and for giving us your impressions!

(Chad Elwartowski) #31

As far as published vs those that showed up, I believe it matched up completely but I did not read through the list much.

I believe the best part of the conference were the guests. A very intelligent and accomplished group of a huge variety from all over the world. I would not call them hobbyists but more entrepeneurs in many different areas that would compliment the seastead community very well. If the group that was there this week were the first seasteaders then it would definitely reflect well upon the prototype.

I can’t really think of anyone there that was probably there representing their company other than the organizers. A majority were not in the marine industry at all. I can only really think of the BlueSeed folks off hand. And maybe some of the older french guys that I did not interact with.

Someone did mention having seen my name on the forums but they did not participate. There was the one guy who posted his design here of the underwater “tube” structure but I have not searched the forums to catch his name.

(Chad Elwartowski) #32

My overall impression, which was my whole point of going…to see if the Tahiti venture was worth investing my time and work toward that end as opposed to other paths forward, was that this is definitely legit. The amount of brains being put toward this effort remind me of the early days of Bitcoin. I see no obstacles in the path for getting the legislation passed. Then after that it is all but guaranteed to happen.

Next thing to happen will be trying to get the legislation passed. They say it is on track to happen by the end of 2017. I believe they will also be working on the business structure and venture capital. I hope to work with the crypto team to help leverage bitcoin investors. I would not doubt that they will get their first million dollars within a week of making that option available. The conference was not short on wealthy people even though they were not the majority.

I do believe the 4k invested in the trip was well worth it. I will likely leave my current career path by 2018 and hope to move forward in some seasteading path. The conference has given me the assurance that the forward path is in Tahiti.

My impression investor-wise was that a majority wanted to invest in a seastead (as in, live on one). There was not too much talk of investing in the seastead company (for me at least).

I would give the convention a pleasantly surprised 10. It came together a lot better than I thought it could in such a short amount of time and their on the ground team was just awesome taking care of every need before you even knew you needed it.

I have been to big company conventions in DC that pour money into impressing their customers and this convention blows them all away.

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(Chad Elwartowski) #33

French Polynesia is a sovereign territory of France ao they are given autonomy on most things. I believe FP has adopted French criminal law though and most likely that would also fall upon the seastead. So murder, rape, theft etc would be passed on to a French legal process.

I believe most of the legislation will be handled by FP without the need to involve France. There are a few things being worked on at the French level that will require their approval such as visa frameworks.

There was not much discussion on the legal framework of the first seastead. I would think it would be minimal as most of the heavy stuff is already covered by French criminal law. The legal framework would likely be about trying to deal with complying to French laws in a unique environment as well as protecting the environment around the seastead. Drug laws would fall under the criminal code so only as legal as in France. Labour and tax laws would (hopefully) not exist. At least they have the potential to not exist under this framework.

I doubt they would announce anything before the legislation goes through as to their plans. Otherwise the “what about the children!?!” crowd would be out protesting to their politicians.

(Jake Rosoman) #34

@Elwar Was anything revealed about the design of the platforms?

The site you posted is inside the reef, so as one of the speakers mentioned they will only need a pontoon. Which isn’t a big engineering challenge. Does that change the cost projection they made a while back?

(Chad Elwartowski) #35

There was nothing publicly revealed but I spoke to their head of engineering. They have a team of six or so architects and engineers working on it and of course that comes with many ideas for design. He said he sat them all down to come up with something high level with a reasonable cost estimate.

They have a few tiers. Each 25m by 25m platform will cost about $4 million. I assume this includes housing, waste treatment, energy, etc.

One platform will be high end family housing with maybe 4 houses with decent square footage.
The other will be 30 units with small dorm sized rooms. For both living and businesses.
They are also working on some research vessels for other interested parties.

They said that the total cost for the platforms in Rotterdam came to about $5 million and that is completely self sufficient.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #36

• Do you mean Bart ? - what are the Delft boys working on?

As far as i am aware this was the last design presented…

Back to questions:

• Was Peter Thiel present (or sent an observer) ?

• Was Patri Friedman there ?

• Any of the former engineers with marine engineering background ( Elco Hoogendoorn | Miguel Llamas | etc…)


I guess, now is the time to grab one of those 187 square feet “small dorm sized rooms” for only $133,000.00 each, before they are all gone :slight_smile:

(Chad Elwartowski) #38

Not Bart, an older gentlemen. Deltek split off Blue21 for international construction. I doubt that any design presented so far will be the final one.

Thiel and Friedman weren’t there. No idea about the backgrounds of their engineers. At this point everyone is working voluntarily because they want this to happen. There is no “staff”.

(.) #39

Tahiti Info: Internet News in French Polynesia:

You can choose your language.
Japanese/Korean/Maori/Spanish/Swedish/Turkish/Vietnam/English/Catalan/Chinese (Simplified)/Danish

Locals comment about seasteading too, and about the TSI project and about the floating city. ,

(Larry G) #40

So when could you move to the Tahitian seastead? As things stand now, the project faces a few legal challenges that the Seasteading Institute is working hard to resolve with several legal professionals like Tom W. Bell. They plan to create a new legal concept called a ‘Seazone,’ a legally-defined territory specifically for seasteading, using the legal model cruise-ships operate under currently. It sounds novel and viable to hear it.

They ultimately will need legislative support from both the Tahitian government, and the French government of which Tahiti is a protectorate. But things look quite positive on that front. We are all very optimistic, and clearly this effort is in the extremely good hands of Seasteading Institute heads, Randy Hencken and Joe Quirk. As for our company, Ventive Seatech, we are focused on producing single-family seasteads which can be used anywhere in the world, and are working towards establishing a first seasteading city in international waters outside San Francisco for entrepreneurs with visa-problems. We would love to create seasteads for the Tahiti seazone as well, of course, and will contribute to the success of the Tahiti seasteading effort in any way we can.

As for our company, Ventive Seatech, we are focused on producing single-family seasteads which can be used anywhere in the world, and are working towards establishing a first seasteading city in international waters outside San Francisco for entrepreneurs with visa-problems. We would love to create seasteads for the Tahiti seazone as well, of course, and will contribute to the success of the Tahiti seasteading effort in any way we can.

Ventive Seatech company and design