The New Age of Sail

(Marc Hawk) #115

The new age of sail is electric motors coupled with a solar array and batteries. While each boat is docked they can buy or sell power to the main floating unit. I think it would be easier to build a floating island if the entire thing was modular. Scale-able in a way that allows the city to expand with new habitants.

Very simply put, it could be a floating dock with the capacity to add more platforms when needed. Each slip in the dock would be interchangeable with a standard power, water and sewage connections. Individuals would buy floating homes (boats) with the standard connection and be able to sign a lease and be part of the community. Other essential facilities can still be modular. A restaurant or farm platform or whatever needed could be connected in the same way.

Using a strategy like this would offset much of the upfront cost of building an entire island community. It also allows the community to grow and change easily.

(noboxes) #116

So the motors blow on the sails to make the sail boat go? Have you calculated the horsepower-hours needed for your sailboat, and the size and weight and cost of the batteries?

(Marc Hawk) #117

Yeah essentially, but to clarify the sailboat is sail free as that would get in the way of the solar array. HP 160, weight 2,000lbs (heavy but not more then 300 gallons of fuel), entire
electric system costs 250,000. which is expensive, but it will be price competitive with diesel in 5 years. top speed 15 knots, range 8 hours at 7 knots. Solar array can replenish 1 of four batteries per day. You can see the boat at I can send more info too…

(noboxes) #118

I think 2000 lbs of lead acid batteries would get you 50 hp-hrs of motoring on your non-sailboat, at best. I say this as someone who built an electric car (it used batteries). You’d need about 13kw of panels to replace that each day, assuming full sun each day, on ~150 panels “rated” 100w each. But it wouldn’t cost anywhere near the $250,000 you quoted for the electrical system, and i say this as someone who bought a solar panel last month.

Maybe you posted your electric boat and seastead format in the wrong topic.

That link takes me to a page containing:

(Marc Hawk) #119

Really? thats not good, what browser are you using? Android?

The new age of sail is a solar array with electric engines. it should be posted here.

Lead acid? no, lithium 122kw worth. The panels will be less then 20k. 300sqft can get you about 30kw in a day or 6kw in peak sun for 1 hour. Batteries are the bulk of the cost, 30k each.

A good solar panel will do 17-22 watts per hour per square foot.

(noboxes) #120

I am using Firefox with NoScript, so i stay on and not get hijacked to wix and parastorage urls, which are all over the place in that page’s html.

Sailing is normally done with a sail. Anything else is “boating”, or “motoring”, or “yachting”. The thread was started by this post:

Of course it got radically hijacked after that with iceboats and live-aboard boomerangs. In deference to a moderator here, i won’t point out that engines are internal combustion machines. But whatever. Someone else says a proper seasteading boat should be able to travel down a highway too.

I am not against boats which have propellors turned by electric motors. All submarines are electric, the USN had a class of electric destroyers, there’s electric ice breakers, and the Azopods (and kin) are electric. I would not want to rely on solar panels to supply “fuel” for my boat’'s propulsion motors. Or any electrochemical battery.

(Marc Hawk) #121

Sailing is an old term, it does not specifically refer to a boat with a sail. Using a boat with electric engines can be called sailing.

A mix of power inputs would be the most reliable system. Batteries, Solar, Hydro (already in place with electric engines), wind turbine and when all else fails, a generator.

(noboxes) #122

Well, as long as we can use our choice of words to mean anything else, i’d like to say it was brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe. All mimsy were the borogoves, and the mome raths outgrabe.

(Matias Volco) #123

The point of Sailing in this context is to find and develop on the existing evolutionary predecesors to Seasteads. People living in sailboats can already be described as a somewhat sustainable opt-out from civilization.

Further, the living space is the vessel, it is mobile and somewhat self-contained.

(.) #124

That would work for me. A sailboat is a comfortable place to live, for me.
When I want headroom I go to the deck. One of the surprising thing with sailboats, that
they do not depend on gasoline. Very little fuel is necessary to run a sailboat.
An opt-out, for me would be partial. For example with a sailboat I would pay little for gas,
because I would not use gasoline. So the gasoline prices would not influence me.
Other things could be the same.

(.) #125

In sailing, nowadays, I observed two groups: coastal cruisers and deep blue cruisers.
(If we must use the word ‘evolutionary’ , well : OK)

Both groups have some characteristics that could be conceived as evolutionary predecessor
for a (wannabe) seasteader.


LOL, yes it does.

No it can’t. That’s a power boat.

A vessel “cruising under sail” is sailing, therefore called a sailboat or a motorsailor. A vessel “cruising under power” could be a sailboat, a powerboat, or a motorsailor.

Given the absence of a mast, standing rigging, sails, such vessel “cruising under power” it’s a powerboat.

Plain and simple.

(.) #127

Well, you know we are very tolerant here about different opinions:
it is my way or the highway. That is it.

(bill mapezzi) #128

I have not read this whole thread yet but I see Novalux is excited about electricsolar powered boats. So I don’t know if this has been covered yet but one option to increase there basic poor performance is to take the best own two types of boats and using current technology (over the counter solarpanels/cheap lead acid baterries) design a better faster vessel. Type #1 heavy displace yacht - either monohull with solar wings or catamaran - both can carry relatively large battery packs to store solar energy and have efficient low power motors than can push the boats 5-7 knots (60 ft waterlines) the catamarans tend to go faster because of their larger panel area lower displacement wheres as a monohull with larger battery storage can go 24 hrs at a slightly lower speed and increase usually increase their panel areas with overhanging “wings”.either built into the hull or with struts. The other type Ive seen are very lightweight multihulls that can go 10 knot+ but with nil energy storage to run at night. Solution-

(bill mapezzi) #129

A longer trimaran with same displacement and same hull shape as the monohull but “stretched” in waterline length. Say an 80ft main hull. It has large “wings” in the form of solar panels mounted above outriggers with floats attached under kissing the water to counteract any excessive roll,stability. This alone should allow it to go 6 1/2 knots avg for 24 hours. Near cutting edge as far as electric boats but stil pathetic in reality. But…it has extra high wave clearance in its outigers comparatively to other trimarans. It uses this space to carry a towed solar arrays under each wing when approaching marina. two more similar towed arrays are hauled up above the outriggers. Otherwise when “sailing” between ports of call., The big trimaran tows 4 1/2 sized solar arrays with it giving it 3 times the power minus a bit of drag. The panels could be diamond shape with a single large surfboard and small struts under them. they fit together into a larger diamond shaped array and towed as a single unit… What does three times the power mean in performance?

(bill mapezzi) #130

I say 9 knots 24/7 with 20% reserve for cloud cover 45 tons total displacement with trailers onboard.500 x rated 350watt panels 50 lbs each, ($200.00/ea), 36kw super motor (3 phase AC with smart drive controller run straight from 240 DC…or whatever($???.00). 480 deep cycle marine glass mat batteries ($150/ea). performance suffers drastically with used tire construction, and spend gobs of dollars anyways so hulls scream wood/epoxy. Total estimate- 600k (class certified SOLAS) 0therwise $450,000. Lithium PO4? extra 150k but 1 knot faster.

(noboxes) #131

I see no allowance for sun tracking. And if you tilt them up for tracking (morning, afternoon, plus seasonal) you must allow for shading.

(.) #132

Yes, and the possibilities are there.

(.) #133

NovaLuxe, I hope you will write more.

(bill mapezzi) #134

no tracking, brute force… square footage and lots of batteries. I only calculated 5 hours at 280 watts. Is that too much for 350 rated on daily average? Do they sell the panels assuming your going to mount them on a tracker?