The New Age of Sail


So where do I begin. I think that technology is important to what and where a seastead can be placed. How would one build a marina in open water with huge swells and waves, at least a ice dish would create calm water to dock in.

Without something to create calm water than the options for placing a marina are extremely limited to the point that a prick coast guard ship can easily pull up and ruin everyone’s day.

If seawater is frozen from the outside-in like when ice cubes and molds are made than it does trap some minerals in it of which the ocean has many and gives ice interesting properties. It’s not about the salt.

The world I live in nothing is impossible until absolutely proven. Maybe it might take insulated panels set up in a form with tubes run through like rebar is with concrete to create a ice reinforced structure. What matters is the cost to make the insulated panels, refrigeration plant and wave energy device to power it vs other options.

As a final note it doesn’t mean anyone will make anything out of ice but options are always good.

(Matias Volco) #22

With two floating breakwaters linked by a bow.

I like ice, it’s naturally occurring and perhaps it can be manipulated to create protected harbors. Perhaps a good option for Arctic Seasteading? The architecture would be fantastic since it would benefit from big glass domes.


I understand but can floating breakwaters stop swells? I can’t seem to find info on that.


IMHO, that’s not really the relevant question. Instead, I’ve been trying to understand a related question:

What is the cost per linear meter to build and moor a floating breakwater (or breakwaters in rows) to attenuate dangerous (e.g. Hurricane-driven) waves sufficiently that the protected boats/craft/floaties don’t themselves have to be individually storm-wave-safe?

So far, I’m seriously dubious that floating breakwaters (and the required mooring to keep them on station) will work well enough to provide meaningful protection against heavy seas. Please feel free to post info (either way) in the breakwater thread.


As per the politics of a libertarian marina I’m sure it would be basic laws such as do not cause harm to others or their property and do not disturb the peace.

I personally would prefer a community police force where residents elect the officers. Let them come before the community and explain why they deserve to be a officer.

Other than that it would more or less be like any marina with floating restaurants and other buildings. The only question is if there will be any intentional effort create jobs for some people or just build it and hope it all works out.

(Matias Volco) #26

I think of the entire structure(s) rising with the swell and riding the storm instead of stopping it
There’s info on cost in the link I already posted:

(Matias Volco) #27

Jobs will appear as the need to maintain these floating outposts, as well as by the services required by productive people who chose to live there permanently.
If the floating marinas offer at least basic vessel maintenance and supply offshore, then there are lots of jobs that go with such economic activity.

All sorts of industries can cluster around these outposts.


Kat, “On a regular bases” means that they (sailboats, powerboats, houseboats, etc.) rent the slip on a monthly bases (which in the marina industry is cheaper than overnight stays) and (in most of the cases) live aboard their boats and call that marina a home port. Sorry for the confusion,…

[quote=“AmericanSlave, post:21, topic:1221”]
The world I live in nothing is impossible until absolutely proven. Maybe it might take insulated panels set up in a form with tubes run through like rebar is with concrete to create a ice reinforced structure. What matters is the cost to make the insulated panels, refrigeration plant and wave energy device to power it vs other options.
[/quote]The worlds I live in has 85 degrees F seawater temperature in the summer and your icestead will melt in 15 minutes.


I think you mean “basis”. But i wasn’t sure you meant this, or regular drydock chocks or keel blocks.

Those newbie ice-boat people forget the amount of wood chips and sawdust used for insulation, and how long it takes to make the solid block, since the cold from the refrigerant tubes is also slowed from spreading by the very same wood bits. And then there is the cost to wrap it in foam, and the cost to replace the foam when the sun UV eats it up (might be an EPA issue there). I strongly suggest people look into the cost of energy, and the rental of the place to build the boat too.


Spelling: “Basis” not Bases.

Basis: the system or principles according to which an activity or process is carried on.
“she needed coaching on a regular basis”

Base: the lowest part or edge of something, especially the part on which it rests or is supported.
"she sat down at the base of a tree"
synonyms: foundation, bottom, foot, support, stand, pedestal, plinth
"the base of the tower"
a conceptual structure or entity on which something draws or depends.
“the town’s economic base collapsed”

(NOT being critical. Explaining the confusion)

(Matias Volco) #31

In any case, the benefit of a floating ramform marina with legs that extend in a train configuration, is that it can begin very small (4-6 slips) and expand almost indefinitely or even contract (sell some of the “wagons”) if necessary and quiet easily as floating buildings or as part of a new marina somewhere else.


That’s why it could be insulated with insulation panels.

There are food warehouses in Phoenix Arizona that are the size of a Wall Mart store that are literally kept at -40° Fahrenheit in 120° weather with surprisingly small refrigeration for its size. 2 500hp ammonia screw compressors with a spare backup if I remember correctly and they don’t even run at full capacity.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #33

Some very interesting base ideas presented by Dimitry Orlov - going to read that in detail… :+1:

…it seems implausible that the technological civilization which currently constitutes our communal life support system will hold together… - i am a bit more optimistic - we can make it if we include the oceans…and leave science and technology develop unrestricted and unredtaped… getting stuff right and transcending is still possible

(.) #34

Does Dimitry Orlov know how to sail?
Professor please learn swimmology.

(.) #35

I resemble that remark. I speak English goodly also.


Thank you, professor :smile:

(Wilfried Ellmer) #37

This is an interesting hypothesis :

… the migratory, nomadic lifestyle will once again become … the only survivable option?

…What are we to do about all the many places that will no longer have the carrying capacity to sustain a permanent settlement of any size? We should expect this to be the norm, not the exception: before the recent ten-thousand-year period of predictable weather, agriculture was not reliable enough, and people had to remain on the move, leading a migratory or nomadic existence, surviving through hunting and gathering food over a wide area. Given an environment characterized by droughts, floods, a long and violent hurricane season, coastal inundations due to rising sea levels, soils depleted by a century of mechanized agriculture, and forest ecosystems undermined by the northward spread of diseases and pests, is it not perfectly conceivable that the migratory, nomadic lifestyle will once again become for the majority of us the only survivable option?..

(.) #38

Migratory, nomadic lifestyle is possible, but I do not think it is probable.

(Matias Volco) #39

The trend has already begun without any major cataclysm, only as a result of the industrialization process we began 350 years ago.
More people move now than ever in history, there are more economic refugees and wealthy expats, and a whole degree in the middle, than ever before.

The USA which has during the 20th century represented a New World, a new way of doing things, has became distinct in the World as the only country where people of all social strata move from one end of the continent to the other for positive economic reasons (ambition) as well as necessity. Teenagers chose their college quiet irrespective to geography and adults don’t hesitate too much to change state, climate and social circle to work a better job.

In the 21st century Dubai has grown to an International City not because of its native population, or only because of its oil, but thanks to the economic migrants and the expat jet set that patronized it.

The migration to the big cities Worldwide is ever increasing and problematic, posing questions that can only be answered with further mobility.

(.) #40

I am not into the theories.
I do not need a justification and a reason.
I am interested about practical application, know-how.
Although I have my reasons too.
The major reason for sailing is: it is fun.