Some Crypto-Capitalists Just Want to See the World Burn


(Chad Elwartowski) #1

Short burb from our own @JL_Frusha “billionaire playground” comment.

The comments on the article can be summed up as:
“Those evil rich people can’t go off and be free somewhere! They will do bad things there, they need to stay here so we can punish them for being rich! Yaaargghhh!”


#2

I fail to see the humor in your statement, and what it has to do with me.

My primary complaint being that only billionaires seem to be the ones that can afford seasteading, in the presumed grandeur most people have tried to come up with, while I have worked hard at coming up with design ideas adapted for work, not play.

I have centered on sustainability and food production, not some floating Club-Med.


(Chad Elwartowski) #3

Not making a joke, they literally link to your post in the article:

But most frequently, seasteading has been maligned as a venture for the rich and the rich only, “a billionaire playground,” as one poster on TSI’s own forum calls it. But Quirk bristles at the criticism. “Seasteads cost money and the people that would engage in financial risk would be the type of people that would risk their money on it. A poor person would probably take a job on a seastead. So the risk they would be incurring is possibly losing their job if the seastead fails,” he explains.

That’s the second article this week that I’ve seen the author reference posts on these forums. Quite interesting.


(Matias Volco) #4

Is it possible that the above linked “publication” has a vendetta against Peter Thiel and would use any opportunity to smear him?
Frusha do you believe you can compress the above pubication into soil fertilizer?
Chad do you believe maybe “some newspapers would like to the see the world burn so they can get effort-free stories” would be a more fitting title for this thread?


(Larry G) #5

Is there anybody writing for or reading gizmodo regularly who isn’t a flaming communist?


#6

Goes to a post by a Mariusz, my comment follows it.

Honestly, though, at the estimated cost of over $600 per square foot, compared to typical homes of about $60 per square foot, who else can afford it?

That is why I have worked so hard at cutting the costs, with DIY Ferrocement hull, estimates for my potential Geopolymer formula costs, and so on.

However, even Robert Ballard noted that the whole scheme is inverted. As several of us have noted, these fancy proposed designs all require a constant import of food, which has not been designed into them.


(Bob LLewellyn) #7

Let’s do some arithmetic. A 300 ft long 54 ft wide double haul barge cost $300,000. We will trim this down to allow for holding tanks for fuel and fresh water. We will use 40ft wide and 240 long.

Inside those tanks we could build eight 30X40 ft wooden houses. Just the frames are needed as the outside walls are covered by a steel ship. Insulation is a must. I can buy a 20X20 two story shed from Home depot for $8000. We will have one story (Roof not needed) 1200 SF living space which is 3 times more than a shed, so we allow $25,000 per unit times 8 units = $200,000.

We will use the same amount for interior finishings and wiring. So far we are at $700,000 New Paint and finish topside with artificial grass and gazebos and other small shaded structures for enjoying the outside, $300,000 for a total of $1,000,000. $1,000,000 / 8 = $125,000. $125,000 / 1200 SF = $104.17 per sqft.

We expect to make 1% of our cost (1mil) per month) in rent, if we wanted to rent instead of buy. 1% is 10 grand. Divided by 8 units is $1250 a month. A little steep but not out of reasoning. And I’m sure we can whittle that down a bit if we wanted to.

I am fairly certain, Wil can make a cement barge with those dimensions for that price as well.
https://www.oceanmarine.com/detail.cfm?30K-BBL-Double-Hull-Tank-Barge---14323&product_id=14323&category_current=6&category_current_sub=25


#8

Hi everyone,

I’ve been an advocate of seasteading for nearly a decade, but only re-registered here now. I was busy with a lot of other things since helping fund some of Vincecat’s experiments. My opinion on land value and development of seasteads has always been that the reason some land has a high-value allowing for high-tech and high-capital investments, is that there is a lot of low-value land economically connected to it and supporting that high-value. At some point if we wish to have seasteads in the magic 200nm-from-sovereign-nationstates zone I believe we WILL need to make at least some cheap floating land of some sort, in order to support the expensive-land, capital-intensive part of the businesses.

Also, I wanted to mention this guy:

He is not rich, but he’s been almost-coast-steading off Panama for several years now.

As for cheap floating structure, has anyone looked into 2nd-hand boats ? The used boat market, both powerboating and sailing, is at the moment saturated with cheap monohulls. And there always are boats offered for free, too, in many marinas all around the world:
http://www.boneyardboats.com/Free_Boats/default.aspx

Assembling a number of hulls together to form a very large structure might just not be as ridiculous as it seems.


(Chad Elwartowski) #9

I enjoy Jamey’s videos, have been watching for a few years. I love his solar boat he made and look forward to seeing his castle finished.


(Larry G) #10

Great to see you back!


(Michael David Lipkan) #11

The reason for government is to reduce the gambling risks so perhaps fixing governments should be first priority. Some survivalists would rather abandon ship than do the hard work of finding solutions the problems at hand.

Free market economics are a headache for social systems because of the fickle nature of market values rising and falling on investor gambles. Kinda like trying to dance on a carpet that is being jerked around under your feet.

Building cities of any size that are truly workable depend on sufficient market stability to allow the coordinated fabrication, distribution, and assembly of sophisticated, complex systems.


(Chad Elwartowski) #12

I for one enjoy pulling the rug out from under social systems that try to suppress free markets.


(.) #13

Some Crypto-Capitalists Just Want to See the World Burn

Yes some. And some people are willing to write anything for money.
This article was written for money. The person who wrote it probably
does not care, and does not know much about the ocean or anything else.


(Michael David Lipkan) #14

Egalitarianism made possible by a meritocracy is not impossible in the computer age. Let’s try to build a future that functions for humanity more by intelligent choices than by gambling. Perhaps then we can work our way out of the looming disasters global warming is promising to bring us in the future.


(Chad Elwartowski) #15

I agree and believe it will be more prevalent in future organizations. I have seen blockchain proposals for such things and look forward to seeing things get rolled out.


#16

but surely the problem will always be a case of those that have more will always exert influence of those that have less? It’s mankind’s inherent nature to build social structures based on the common currency at the time - material wealth, physical prowess etc. In an environment like a stead, the only way to stop that those with contemporary power bases from gaining automatic control is to apply artificial breakers. Personally, I’m in favour of a Norway style trust fund with each stead resident an equal partner. The benefits are two fold - no resident is more important than another as each resident will have the same amount of shares (and stake) and therefore carry the same risk/reward, and secondly, a decent portfolio should generate wealth for both the stead and stakeholders (residents). I’d link it to emerging tech companies as quite a bit of the tech being developed for human space travel would have applications for steading.


(Chad Elwartowski) #17

Each seastead can set up their own system however they like.

It will always be the case that people that have what other people want will be able to get what they want from those with the desire. In a capitalist society that transfer of power is done voluntarily. In other systems they have come up with ways through force to distribute power.

Either way, might makes right. No matter how altruistic you believe your system is.


(Larry G) #18

The primary natural method of applying brakes to the abuse of personal power is scale- smaller groups have interpersonal relationships and personal/familial/tribal loyalty where the leaders have obligations, social, moral, ethical and personal to individuals who can hold them accountable in front of the group.

Alphas only stay alphas as long as the majority of betas support them.


#19

LOL, personally I’m in favor of Aldous Huxley’s ISLAND “utopian paradise”,… but that’s irrelevant.

We could fairly image and articulate with quite solid odds of certitude that future seasteads would be “nothing like we have today”, in terms economIcs and sociopolitics.

Otherwise, what’s the point of seasteading,…


(.) #20

My idea is “vote with your boat”, “like it or leave it”,
repeat business keeps each side motivated toward mutual benefit.