Small steps in the right direction


#1

Hi guys, new to the forum, but not the ideas or concepts here. What seems to be a really big problem is that everyone seems to be wanting to build fully sustainable cities straight away. Or homes for their family but be fully autonomous and without government. Why don’t we think in smaller steps!

For example an idea I propose would be to first of all have sea based permanent hotels. A few miles off the mainland of a country rich with tourism, have a large structure with the ability to produce own water and electric, and cater for over 100 people, and space for staff. The reason is wouldn’t it be more logical to first be connected to land in some ways such as getting food from the mainland, to see if people can fully cope on these structures. As it’s tourism based it would bring money for the government, and raise the issue of seasteading to more people.

Also the crew could be people who want to seastead fulltime, this way they get a room, and a pay and get part of the seasteading experience until a true seasteading community project has been made.

Opinions everyone? Or does everyone think I’m stupid to suggest taking smaller steps?


(Wilfried Ellmer) #2

@siwel123 |

welcome to the forums !

Starting in small steps instead of building a city in a “singularity event” sounds like a great idea to me…

context: evolution vs singularity seasteading

To find what was talked so far about that topic check the topics of …

| high road seasteading vs. low road seasteading | poor man´s floating island | seasteading evolutionary line | singularity | floating out rafts | kontiki | the size of a seastead drives its political ambitions | seasteading belize | phase 1 investor conversation |

… using the search funcion of the forum or googling it up right away.


Floating Hotels do exist already … this one was built in the shape of a cruise ship, to blend into the ambient, and is situated (permanently moored) in the port of Gibraltar… (the quest for space as driver for floating structures)


#3

@ellmer Whoopie!! It just seems nowadays that everyone is just too focused on building big cities.


(Larry G) #4

I would suggest reading through the forum quite a bit more. What you’re proposing has been proposed multiple times, close enough.

The forum members and the TSI publicity efforts are philosophically far apart on his issue. You won’t get much direct feedback on foru. Posts from TSI representatives. The forum Is just for enthusIasts of the concept, apparently. They don’t appear to take us very seriously.


#5

@thebastidge it’s a shame, no one can take the forum members seriously, i’m sure lots of our ideas could have massive potential. I was not aware the idea was said, i’ve read through quite a bit of the forum before registering as a user, but thanks for pointing it out to me.


(Larry G) #6

Search “marinea” for one.

One problem with hotels tho. The main motivation for people to patronize a hotel is the destination, not the hotel itself. A hotel in Minot North Dakota will not have the same draw as Las Vegas, no matter how nice.


(Chad Elwartowski) #7

See the Seasteading Institute’s 3 phase plan:

Phase 1: Build a seastead in a nation’s harbor.
Phase 2: Build a seastead out 12 nm from a nation.
Phase 3: Build a seastead in international waters.

I am all about incrementalism.


#8

@Elwar all well and good building a floating city in a harbor, but that is still a massive jump, something smaller as the first attempt may be better?


(Chad Elwartowski) #9

My personal approach that I hope to start next year is a small “houseboat” sized seastead that can attach to others. The goal being cheap but expandable.

My latest designs have started taking into account the shipping difficulties of French Polynesia making each small seastead build-able from “building blocks” which will allow for lego type of building of seasteads (do not take the lego reference literally).


#10

@Elwar what a beautiful idea, however can i ask is there going to be any infrastructure styled boats, such as a hopsital? Or will you be located very close to land so have all that available?


(Chad Elwartowski) #11

My plan is to likely build it on land in a waterway that has ocean access. After it is built I would moor it in a marina for at least a year as a proof of concept.

Only then would I start selling actual seasteads.

You only need to check with people living on boats to discover how they deal with hospitals.

I think you missed the post about “Phase 1: Build a seastead in a nation’s harbor”.

I believe that any speculation beyond that is useless at this point. People actually living on the seastead in the harbor will be the ones deciding anything beyond that.


#12

@Elwar i did read it i assure you hahaha. What do you mean any specualtion beyond that?


(Chad Elwartowski) #13

At this point it is just mental masturbation.

If we have a seastead in a harbor for 5 years, the people actually living on that seastead would know what things they will need to deal with a lot better than some people speculating on the Internet years before that is even an issue.


#14

@Elwar granted, i give you that. However what is your opinion on having a floating hospital as part of your seastead desing?


(Chad Elwartowski) #15

In my ideal fantasyland seastead I would want a huge focus to be on medical research into extending life (even curing the disease known as aging). This would mean many medical professionals on board with superior medical knowledge. They would not need to worry about getting permission to try new approaches to medicine and would hopefully have some great breakthroughs.

But that point is moot because Phase 1 will be in a harbor. Where you can just take a boat to the nearest hospital. And it will be regulated by the national laws that it is harbored in.

My initial design does not include “There will be a grocery store, a restaurant, a dentist, a hospital…etc.”.

It says…Here is a floating structure that you can attach to the larger structure. You can live in it. You can have a business of your choosing, you can live in it and have a business. It is up to you. Let it grow organically. Centralized planning doesn’t work.

Also, as far as hospitals go. I follow this guy on Youtube who lives on an island in Panama completely off grid a long boat ride away from civilization. Here is his experience when he had an infection on his leg:


(Chad Elwartowski) #16

If you’ve ever seen the TV show “Genius”, so many times I just wait for them to say…“what if we try this fancy new medical procedure on a boat 12 nm offshore where we do not fall under the FDA guidelines?”.

Some day.


(Bob LLewellyn) #17

That guy in the movie wasn’t thinking clearly. If he can make that pod cast, then he could call his doctor and show him the injury by phone. In Panama, you can get a lot of prescribed medicines without a doctor prescription but the doctor can call in prescriptions to pharmacies down there. Marinea plans to use remote doctors until we are large enough to support a medical facility.
Bob


(Larry G) #18

The restraints on new approaches to medicine are only partly regulatory. There are absolutely ethical issues to address that prevent rushing blindly into new treatments, even with the consent explicit of (desperate) patients.


(Chad Elwartowski) #19

Rushing blindly is not something I mentioned. I know people would be weird about it. But they would be weird about just about anything that is illegal in their country and legal on the seastead. That’s how it works.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #20

We had a long discussion under the topic “the ugly4” where the limits of the things you can do on a seastead are. The Hypothesis that it is mandatory to keep things “ethical correct” - even if you are outside the regulatory sistem - was presented there.

The other topic dealing with medical seasteads is Randy Henckens intent to get approval from FDA.

In any case NOBODY EVER suggested to do “ethical not correct things” on a seastead on any thread i am aware of in the last 5 years. If seasteaders refer to “outside jurisdiction” they are always talking about skipping scantling and hindering, unnecessary, and damaging rulesets that have nothing to do with ethic correct behavior.

Seasteads are going to have the same ethical behavior standards as land communities and improve on those - they are supposed to be a step forward - not a step back.

The hypothesis that seasteads could foster a “unethical” or “illegal” activity is merely a hypothesis of the people who write badmouthing articles about our movement.

As a movement we should react very clear and sharp when people “imply in their comments” that “seasteading has a goal that is unethical or illegal (in the sense of criminal)”…

When is comes to figure out what is ethical correct the current sistem of “burocratic overload” is not a sistem that is prone to produce good results. In Vienna Austria we had the way to create ethic commissions instead looking for “rulings” -

The ethic commission would consist of 8 top medics of the country (Univ Prof.). The doctor proposing a new treatment would “present his case” to them and recieve their ruling if his “experiment is a go or a no go” in the sense of the “hippocratic oath” and the “good standing of the medical profession”.

This worked out perfectly. Burocracy is not a guaranee for correctness - court like ruling by experts on a case to case base is doing a far better job.

In this context it is necessary to say that in Austria the philosophy of regulation is rather to expect doctors to be regulated in their behavior by other doctors than doctors to be regulated by lawyers as it is the philosophy in the US sistem. - @siwel123 - I am off topic yet ? - to deepen in this follow the links below…


context: [Randy Hencken looking for approval for a medical seastead from FDA](http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t59233156/fda-approval-process-for-a-medical-seastead/) | December 19, 2014 | original thread is deleted by TSI i copied the key parts to one of my forums...

What a medical research platform could do | Richard Branson make a paralytic walk beyond FDA rulings - stem cell research | Greg Venter oceanic genetic bounty | Dr. Devi Shetty low cost oceanic health services | Amazon pharma research platform | hydrothermal community biology investigation | introducing cancer medication beyond FDA Wilfried Ellmer Vienna pharma introduction |


Business Proposals for seasteads of all sizes and makes (medical seastead is nr.9.3) | investors will single out what comes first - not forum discussion | nemo token |