Small Community (Urban) Planning. What is minimum critical infrastructure?

(Larry G) #21

Back to the original topic:

Check the standards for off-shore accommodations and work platforms:

That’s a place to start gaining understanding as to what is necessary to live and work on the ocean.

(.) #22

Go for it. I have different plans. I do not know either. I have been around those towers
with a sailboat. The towers are ugly and industrial.

So these oil platforms make money because of the oil. When those platforms do not
make money, the platform gets abandoned. Wen someone thinks of a new use of it
people want to make money again.

When there is interest, the price goes up. Just like everything. The only way is to move
out of jurisdiction. I do not think those oil platforms move.


Most oil platforms are designed to be moved to new locations, based on the need to fund new fields, when the pocket gets depleted.

(noboxes) #24

Someone always owns them. Maybe they do not use them, but they know they own them. They are never abandoned.

Two towers on Atlantic coast were bought, one makes money as diving and hotel. Thebastige posted url to a jackup rig used as diving and hotel.

(.) #29

So, it is easy to verbally explore possibilities. It is more difficult to invest your own money in it.
The allocation of the money is a difficult thing, else you the reader of this text would have already
invested the money.

How much of your own money have you invested into the direction of seasteading?
For me, so far $110K.


I have no intention, or desire to deal with them, whatsoever.

I didn’t even imply that. The industry has a long history of building, mooring, moving, mooring and reutilization of the deep water structures. Even those for shallow waters, such as jackup rigs, are designed to be moved.

(.) #31

Probably the profitability of oil makes it possible.
If no oil, no money, platform gets abandoned.

Trying to finance those platforms without oil is probably a no go.

(.) #32

Back to topics: minimum critical infrastructure:

If you do not know it, try camping.

Survival minimum: time without air:3 min, time without shelter, exposed to elements: 3 hours,
time without water to drink: 3 days, time without food: 3 weeks.

For a group of people and civilized condition: flush toilet, shower, kitchen sink, washer, dryer,


Flush toilets aren’t particularly efficient and require excessive amounts of water.

Laundry can, has and is done by hand and air-dried w/o energy consuming, wastefully excessive water consuming machinery, as well.

There are better, more efficient alternatives available.

(.) #34

Yes, I get it , the excessive wasteful use of seawater. I will notify the orcas.

(noboxes) #35

I am guessing you will use only a few gallons of seawater to flush your toilet into the ocean? Or after you get a greasey rag from cleaning the stove/bbq/oven, you will rinse it and detergent cleaner with only a few gallons of seawater, into the ocean?

Will you dump greasy desalinated water into the ocean? Did you know some places prohibit desal facilities because they dump lots of hyper-saline water into the ocean?

(Larry G) #36

Hand washing clothing is not efficient. It’s a major waste of human potential. Consuming energy in itself is not wasteful or bad. It is useful.

Minimum survival stuff: physical needs for food, air, water, shelter, and hygiene. Profitable occupation to store up resources against hard times.

(.) #37

You are making up stories about me again. Asking questions first could be better.
We could be better friends that way.

(noboxes) #38

I am not seeing any problem hooking a 5 gallon bucket of laundry to a “fitness exercise” treadmill or bicycle. It’s wasteful not to.

(.) #39

I will notify the weather man, that excessive freshwater evaporation from the ocean surface is prohibited.

(noboxes) #40

My bad english again! I ended all four questions with a “?”. Is that not 4 questions? I am sorry. I think i did not tell any stories about anyone.

(noboxes) #41

Is weatherman where you live in conttrol of that? I did not know.

(.) #42

Well, I am getting bored. That motivates me to go and build something.

Happy trail to you, until we meet again.


This site sure has gotten snarky over the last few days.

My point about hand washing laundry wasn’t acceptable in context of a society not needing excessive machinery, snarky comments on moving oil platforms, taken as my wanting to have and move such monstrosities, others getting snarky about military service they have no experience with, nor comprehension of.

Would it be improper to suggest a return to civility?

(Tom Schaefer) #44

"Check the standards for off-shore accommodations and work platforms:"

This still seems focused on a collection of individual family-sized seasteads, rather that a community that recognizes that there will need to be common areas/infrastructure and some degree of integration. From an efficiency/reduced duplication and economy of scale standpoint.

How many trips to the mainland and how many deliveries and tons per capita from the mainland per month or per year do you envision meets the definition of self-sufficiency for you or the requirements above? I think some systems engineering may be needed here. There may be some models:

  1. Antarctic research station (remote, cargo dependent)
  2. Mongolian nomads (seastead emphasis on fishing instead, 2 or 3 gatherings/year for trade, primative)
  3. Native American fishing village
  4. Del Webb retirement communities
  5. Old Greenbelt, MD (the idea behind it)

Where do you see the seastead model falling in this spectrum? I think there is a critical mass of a few hundred people, somewhere between a native American fishing village and a Del Webb retirement community that makes sense and that my family would consider participating in. For you, maybe this is seastead population wave 2, and some of the pioneers would move on at that point?

Here is a relevant factoid regarding the lack of self-sufficiency in the US population:

“…Since each person in the U.S. requires the movement of approximately 40 tons of freight every year, many of the goods people use daily are either wholly shipped or contain components shipped by rail. Of rail freight, 91 percent are bulk commodities, such as agriculture and energy products, automobiles and components, construction materials, chemicals, coal, equipment, food, metals, minerals, and paper and pulp. The remaining 9 percent is intermodal traffic which generally consists of consumer goods and other miscellaneous products.”

How many tons of freight per capita going to the seastead would be an objective that would be considered self-sufficiency?

BTW: THANKS! for the link to the Global Village Construction Set. The name reminded me of the quip that if we are going to have a global village we need to get use to the idea of the global village idiot :wink: . But seriously, the infrastructure, inputs, and talents necessary to make (most of) those 50 items might be a good definition of minimal infrastructure for self-sufficiency. For example, could one collect and solar smelt manganese nodules for the metals required? Could one 3D print plastics produced from algae or fish oils, or could one collect enough plastic flotsam in some areas of the oceans?