Ship repair on a seastead today - ship repair on a seastead tomorrow


(Wilfried Ellmer) #1

Ship repair on a floating asset today ( Existing Floating Drydock)


Ship repair on a floating asset tomorrow (Riverside shipyard from Star Treck)


Seasteading is about the big five of oceanic business development


Get a foothold in ocean colonization:

http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t49529137/oceanic-frontier-develpment-investment-foothold-in-ocean-col/

The Captain Nemo Lifestyle:

http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t43942461/the-captain-nemo-float-out-seasteading/

Why oceanic business is the next big thing to come:

http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t56680633/the-reasons-why-oceanic-business-is-the-next-big-thing-to-co/

Ocean sphere fish farming:

http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t55433095/ocean-sphere-the-next-wave-of-sustainable-fish-farming/

Ocean colonization gallery:

http://imulead.com/tolimared/concretesubmarine/picturegallery/concept/

Big things have small beginnings ocean colonization transition, potential:

http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t58002383/big-things-have-small-beginnings-transition-capability-key-f/

Sustainability on Planet Earth only the oceans can safe us:

http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t58921987/sustainability-population-growth-consumption-growth-ocean-co/

Free spirited oceanic lifestyle global mobility:

http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t58935854/subdue-to-nobody/


#2

Despite all the spam urls in that post, a drydock at sea has been on my mind for years. For instant seasteading, it’s a matter of the cost of renting seaside and the interference there, and the size i can transport on the road to get to the water and then the ramp size. But if i can build at sea, then i can build any in size and shape and material. Again, it must be a stable platform, not a rolling bouncy wash-washed deck.


(stephen russell) #3

The Riverside dock for Star Trek took place in Iowa, pure landlocked dock to build ships then.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #4

yes, but because it is easy to move big parts on the water it will be easier to have spaceports on the watersurface


#5

Has anyone actually looked into steps to take in usa waters to make this happen? For instance, can you register a plain barge and then legally make it submerge for float-on-float-off without re-registering it? Are there special pollution standards? Special inspections if it is semi- or totally-submirsible? Can i park it and operate it anywhere i please as long it is out of sight and sound range of everyone? Is there a minimum or max legal size? If a boat is on it, for paid procedures like bottom cleaning, patching, seal replacement, hole installation, does the drydock operator need a captain’s license? Can i apply fiberglass while on it? If someone from the boat i carry is operating a broom and sweeps dust overboard, am i going to jail? Why doesn’t TSI have this info in an online library, @RandolphHencken and @joequirk ?


#6

I have not, however there are already submersible drydocks available globally. apolloduck.com has a few listed. There may be a few other sites to look on, but I have not found many ‘general’ sites that actually have prices listed. 500k to a few million for a used towable drydock, most of which show up in Canada, the US, or the Carribean/Eastern South American Seaboard.

As far as the US is concerned: Probably more money and time than you would feasibly want to spend.

Based on the size of the docks, I don’t think you could build out one cheaper or more efficient than you could purchase used, even if it needed work to be functional.


#7

Well, i have the 1/4 steel plate to build a 16x24 deck space. What the space is called, and whether or not it submerges to be a FOFO deck, is up to whether or not it’s legal to do so. It might be more practical to make it work space rather than my livingroom. It would be vastly more practical if anyone would lower themselves to live in a 16x16 space, which could be built and launched on a slightly larger submirsible deck. I am trying to find a way to make it useful space, and maybe rent it out, or sell stuff on it that i make. The trailer i recently made on the boat deck looks really fine, and has drawn positive comments, but is pretty useless on a personal seastead.


#8

As I’ve said before, I’m not on the TSI staff. I’m just a volunteer with limited areas of authority, which is basically just user-created content: the forum, the blog comments, and the wiki.

For questions about TSI-created/supplied content, you need to direct your queries to @RandolphHencken and @joequirk.


#9

Thanks, Ken, i edited my post containing the question, to flag them.


#10

Per a discussion last night with Joe … he and Randy are extremely busy preparing for June and working on the floating city project, so don’t expect to get a response.


(Bob LLewellyn) #11

[quote=“kensims, post:10, topic:407”]
so don’t expect to get a response.[/quote]

The thought never crossed our mind.


#12

How about 10x40 instead of 16x16?

Look at the design for European barge houses. The ones they use in Amsterdam and the UK. I think these use a 10x40 foot form, where floor of the main living unit is about 3 feet below water line. There is typically a walkway around the unit slightly above the water line on the outside. You could design the whole thing to handle overwash for safety during high seas.

I’m curious, what is the weight of the steel for a 16x16 enclosed structure?


#13

Yeah, right. :smiley:

However in this specific instance I’m giving a more-or-less official response of “no response” as opposed to a default no response by virtue of no one responding.


#14

It means we are less important than whatever they choose to do instead, or we aren’t valid. It’s the same reason i don’t contribute in a meaningful way. If TSI makes it big in seasteading, they will say those on the forum weren’t worth their time, and if all of us go to sea then we can say TSI was a waste of time.


#15

It highly depends on how it’s built, as small changes in steel can mean a lot of weight. Basic rule of thumb is 1/4 inch thick plate is 10 lbs per square foot, steel is 490 lbs per cubic foot, and you can extrapolate from there. Aluminum is 3x lighter and 3x pricier. The basic common plate dimensions are (4 or 5) x (8 or 10), but i could get 10x20 delivered if i wanted to throw lots of money at them.

I chose 16x16 because they potentially make nice building blocks, and fit inside 20x20 squares. Two make a 16x32 (or 16x40 with a center moon pool). “Framing” steel comes in 20ft lengths, so a 20x20 is just as do-able.

If you are a baystead with 3ft of freeboard, you can prolly build the whole thing from deck up with normal home building materials, subject to extreme hurricane standards (glue, clips, rods, diagonals, etc). But 16x16 may be hard to stuff down the ICW for relocation.

As a drydock deck, it can be built to tolerate random point loads of tripod jacks, or the distributed load of air bags, or large lumber, or have specified load points. A residence can be thinner plate all over. The drydock may have no walls above the deck (or any fixed roof), the residence will have walls and roof of various thicknesses depending on strength needed. Ironically, if you shrink the residence to 10x40, a huge amount of the load can be shed to the walls instead of framing, but your dock fees are based on length, and finding a 40ft dock all for yourself won’t be easy. And in the ocean i expect a 10x40 Airstream to be really bouncy and rolly.

But lets say i have a smallish residence and my 14ft “car” develops a leak (or needs cleaning or bottom paint). I most likely cannot fit it into the residence for repairs, but if my exterior lounge and bbq deck doubles as a simple drydock, getting the boat aboard (and even de-engined and flipped over) is trivial. But it’s far easier to use a floatie designed as a drydock as a bbq deck, than to make a bbq deck be a semisubmirsible drydock. As far as lightweight commercial uses, pretty much only the size matters, such as launching 16x16’s from a drydock that’s slightly larger.


#16

I wouldn’t phrase it quite so negatively, but essentially yes.

Randy and Joe have to prioritize their use of time (as do I and most other people).

Spending time answering questions from forum users about what TSI is doing, or isn’t doing, or is going to do, or isn’t going to do, about [whatever] is very low priority. Particularly since that would undoubtedly lead into additional questions about why they are choosing to do what they do.

They are under no obligation to justify themselves to anyone except to the TSI Board of Directors.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #17

I understand the strategy of the Board of Directors to avoid to be dragged to umpa lumpa talk… unfortunatly as a community we still have a long way to go to find a gravity center that makes each thread a quality info source…it is a concept error to belive they have to report and present status to these forums. Get the info is not a “right you can call in” it is a right you need to earn…


(Bob LLewellyn) #18

[quote=“KatOnTri, post:14, topic:407”]
It means we are less important than whatever they choose to do instead,[/quote]

Less important to whom? What’s the big deal if someone doesn’t want to hang out with us? I like everyone on this board, I choose to be here and we have been doing just fine without them joining in. Maybe they think they can best serve us by leaving us alone? I like the fact that we have a free hand in developing our project without some oversight comity. Sounds kind of libertarian. I’d like to say to the west coast boys, “I hope you do good and enjoy, from all of us Mariners”. :smile:
Now back to work…where was I?


#19

You [colorful noun phrase], i asked about library resources, not ongoing personal discussions or “ump lumpa talk”. Your post, which i am replying to, is the post which has started a new series of self-defense and fighting posts. [Cusswords], Ellmer, can’t you leave well enough alone?

TSI should have had an ongoing effort, however small, to acknowledge some data they run across as important to seasteading or oceanology, and archived it to an online library for everyone to gain understanding, (even if it meant blowing 0.001% of the $millions from selling that boat a few years ago) to hire an occasional temp secretary to scan in a paper article or two. Prior to being run off the forum last year, i’d have volunteered to scan it for free using my own equipment. I regard hoarding the data, squirreling it away out of sight, as irresponcible to the goal of seasteading. However, in the last year i have come to realise this is the normal state of affairs, and cannot be changed in the current edition of humans. It’s not negative as much as it is stating the facts.


#20

Bob, i almost could not care less if they don’t want to be here (considering what a waste of time fighting that it usually is), i asked about an online library of info relevant to seasteading, info they could have and should have run across since TSI began. Info that they could be sharing, in the interest of furthering seasteading and reducing the amount of effort some of us make scouring the internet for data, as well as backing up stuff that’s no longer online.