Sending Elmer to Mars

(noboxes) #1

So how can we do this?

(Theodore M. Amenta) #2

OK - noboxes — I am not certain you realy wnat to do this. I am about 50% into the process of formulating a market, financial and physical feasibility for a human community on Mars. I did and shared this exercise for seasteading a year ago. There was some interaction but no positive result. Coming upon Elon Musk + other comments on Mars, I decide to do the same exercise. I have been involved in the development of destinations — resorts and paid admission attractions (amusment and water parks etc.) since 1964. The methods for considering this were manifested in the 1900s. Gravity models, market segmentation, – mixed-use development — etc. I happened to be a quick learning mechanic and authored multiple destination concepts all over the world. — I am applying the approach to Mars at the moment. If you prefer to stay on Earth search “gravity model” – the math is late high school! — Ted


Noooo, please take noboxes,… I’ll pay for all the expenses :smile:

(noboxes) #4

If you can cover that cost for me, why not that discussion we had about researching a business in Cay Sal?


LOL, what cost has to do with a discussion?

I did looked into Cay Sal. It’s feasible given that an agreement can be worked with the Bahamian Gov. so a “seasteading entity” can operate there. That’s on the theoretical level and just a personal opinion,…

Bob from Marinea would be the right person to talk to about that. I don’t have immediate plans for investing there.

(noboxes) #6

Well, that’s where the discussion ended. But it wouldn’t cost you anything like the cost to send me to Mars.

Or lease an acre of coastal pulpwood forest as a seasteader build and launch site.


Nope. That’s your idea of seasteading start up point, not mine.

I just got a 28’ cabin cruiser as a start up. It made more sense to me.

What’s the point of leasing coastal real estate (did you check those prices from Texas down to Florida??) to “build and launch”? That’s done in a boatyard, in and out, at a fraction of the cost.

And please don’t argue with me on this one and try (for once) to accept a candid, professional opinion from somebody who’s been in the marine business for 20+ years.

(noboxes) #8

People built those boatyards, from bare coastal real estate. The point is they can be more for seasteaders than only a build-launch site. An acre of land a mile from a public ramp on a river or bay to the ocean can be more valuable than being right on the ocean. And i did check out the prices. My financial situation, altho comfortable, precludes me saving any or making more, so the lump sum requirements of doing this alone make it impossible.

And sadly you are fixed in the definitions of words you use, and methods you know. Not everyone is in your financial situation. Not everyone has achieved what you have done, in the same way you have done.

It’s depressing as hell that i can go out and weld up some steel plate in any shape i want, but i cannot get the combination of [me , my boat , the car i rode in on] to the GOM all at the same time, AND be able to park the boat at the GOM safely while i come back here for the rest of my belongings. Or park the car safely while i am on the boat. There is no place that is a combination of long term car/boat parking and boat assembly too. I know of a dozen public ramps that would be ideal to launch at, but i cannot get a liveaboard down there in one piece, and cannot joint two pieces at those ramps. I know of marinas, they won’t allow parts of a boat or boat assembly. Everywhere i turn, there’s rules people made up that means they suck $50k at a time from me, to allow me to do the simplest of things, and i will never have $50k as a lump sum.

But you have 20+ years of experience in doing things in ways to keep me out, so good for you, congratulations.


Don’t be silly now… I’m not keeping you out of anything. I’m just a simple messenger. This is how the real estate and the marine industry works in the US.

The problem is systemic. Isn’t that why we would rather go seasteading?

I’m not a rich man noboxes. I’m working hard for my money, like any other American. No Senator’s son here, no silver spoon. Just and emigrant (legal that is) who came here in 1985 with 50 bucks in his pocket.

What “more”? Headaches maybe… Where? In Florida? Texas? Any US coastal State? First of all they’ll suck you dry on permits, zoning, licensing, etc. before you even get to invest 1$ in seasteading AFTER you spend top dollar on some coastal real estate,…

Am I wrong? U tell me.

Personally, I don’t think so… For all that money and MUCH less aggravation you can float a small seasteading community MUCH faster, live at anchor “under the radar” (definitely possible in the Florida Keys), make some money on the side, grow, and if big enough, move offshore.

(.) #10

post can’t be empty
post must be 20 …

(.) #11

I am planning on picking up tire #6.

(noboxes) #12

So you have or have not been playing the rules of the “marine business”? I didn’t say you were intentionally working against me, i was saying that’s the only way you can think of to live. The rules that guide your marine business life the last 20 years are dictating how you spend your life now.

Not if you cannot get the boat into the water.

This is reminding me of a guy who was building a large boat in his back yard, which had a creek at the back side. His plan was to launch it at retirement. But the county then built a bridge over the creek that his boat could not get under. He figured then to truck the boat to a marina. He was refused permits because the residential road to the highway could not support the weight of the boat. Without any viable plan to get the boat into the water, they made him destroy the boat, because it was an eyesore in a residential area.

I cannot get an acceptable workboat/liveaboard trucked to the GOM from here in one piece, and i cannot locate a place i can put two pieces together at the GOM.


Irrelevant. I was an employee,… What this has to do w/my original comment:

If you don’t believe me or think otherwise, do it your own way.

Well, not knowing all the elements of this equation, I would say that:

  1. What the heck were you thinking building/buying a vessel so big that you cannot legally tow?

  2. Putting two pieces together meaning like in rafting few modules or building them?

(noboxes) #14

Like i said, you have been trained by 20 years in “the marine business” to think that [rafting, bolting, combining, assembling, etc] some [parts, pieces, sections] of a boat into the whole boat is done only in a boatyard.

And i say again, i did look at land prices on the water and within short towing distances. There’s suitable places to be had, but i cannot have that kind of money sitting in a bank account to buy them. In four years, i can have another $40,000 in steel, looking like a boat, sitting in my back yard, but i cannot have $5,000, as a down payment, towing charges, or as boat yard rental.

I was thinking i did not want to live in the land-equivalent of a RV, surrounded by water, bouncing in the waves, the rest of my life. I wonder if you realise that “big” in the context you used, includes “overlength”, and for a regular driver license, an RV is an length exception, but a boat or boat parts, is not. And yes, years ago i considered hollowing out an RV to carry large things inside it.

(noboxes) #15



Actually, there are ways to do just that. I already outlined an idea, had a good site picked, even folks saying they were interested, but evidently not enough to cover a down payment, with me carrying a 20 year mortgage, with enough land for folks to come build on, a decent homestead as a support base for fresh produce, parcel and postage, even bulk supply delivery.

As far as I can tell, everyone dreams big, but nobody wants to put their money where their mouths are.

(… and thank you for showing that the legal immigration route to citizenship can work)