Seasteading for Climate Refugees

(Larry G) #21

The reason these folks are crowded into camps has nothing to do with available space/area/square measurements to put them. It has everything to do with infrastructure and social structures to absorb them.

There are Palestinian refugee camps in surrounding Muslim/Arab nations where 4th and 5th generation “refugees” are still kept cloistered living in squalor, not allowed to find work or become citizens in the country where they were born. They are kept there to maintain the “crisis”, because the no one wants to solve their problems. They want to use them as leverage.

Even in crowded Europe, the problem with absorbing refugees is not the space to put them. The infrastructure to absorb additional tens of thousands instantly is not really there, but the far bigger problem than numbers of people is integrating them into a place that doesn’t use their native language, where social expectations are greatly different, where job skills and life skills don’t match up to their experience, and where people don’t really want them.

Seasteading has zero infrastructure at the moment. None of the above problems are currently solved by seasteading, and the cost of building that infrastructure keeps being estimated so high by TSI, that it is extremely unlikely that TSI will develop anything but a curiosity or escape hatch for the extremely rich.

(.) #22

Well, the political climate is thickening:

The Turkish minister wanted to go to Holland to campaign for the vote of the Turkish people
who live in Holland. The Dutch said: Turkish people can enter Holland but Turkish politics has
to stay in Turkey.

Similar thing happened in Kocovo; Albanians entered Yugoslavia, formed a community and
wanted to have an autonomous area. The Serbs said they sold the Albanians some land but
not the country. Lots of people killed each other using this as an excuse.

Seasteading in French Polynesia has to be beneficial and wanted by the Polynesians and by
the government of French Polynesia, and also by France. The territorial waters around French
Polynesia can be the property of France.


Not to start a side-branch on the discussion, @spark … but your facts on Kosovo are incorrect. The archaeology and cultural anthropology proves the ethnic Albanians - and, later, ethnic Slavs - were present in those Balkan areas centuries prior to modern nation states. Ethnic Albanian presence in Kosovo predates Jesus Christ and, probably, Alexander the Great.

As for refugee resettlement … a seastead isn’t even close to optimal for refugees. They have too many (and a diversity of) needs, which mandates using established resources. Seasteads simply aren’t capable of providing massive resettlement potential.

(.) #24

I do not know much about Alexander the Great, nor about Jesus Christ.
I am not Albanian , nor Serbian ethnic. During that war I was in the US.
But I was born in a country within that area.
What is done, is done. I have no territorial dispute with anybody.

I would like to be back to the present about seasteading and sea structures, and sovereignty:

Wary of China, Duterte tells navy to build ‘structures’ east of Philippines.

MANILA, March 13 (2017) (Reuters) - Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has ordered the navy to put up
"structures" to assert sovereignty over a stretch of water east of the country, where Manila has
reported a Chinese survey ship was casing the area last year.

The Philippines has lodged a diplomatic protest with Beijing after the vessel was tracked moving back
and forth over Benham Rise, a vast area east of the country declared by the United Nations in 2012
as part of the Philippines’ continental shelf.

(.) #25

France Preparing For War? Defense Launching $4B Navy Program Before Elections

France’s defense minister reportedly plans to start creating a $4 billion frigate, or naval,
program ahead of the country’s upcoming presidential election in May, according to Defense

Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, along with an agency investment committee, was scheduled
to approve the program Friday, but sources told Defense News the meeting was postponed.
However, the measure is still expected to gain approval when the committee meets and then
asks the Economy and Finance ministries for funding.

French contractors DCNS, which focuses on naval equipment and ships, and Thales Group,
a builder of electrical systems for defense and aerospace industries, will be tasked with
delivering five 4,200-ton ships, the first scheduled for 2023.

As France last year aimed to up its defense spending, the move was viewed as a way to
promote DCNS’ warships and overall exports of French-made arms, the report said. Furthermore,
it could help DCNS further its footing in Colombia, where it announced the opening of an
office in Bogota. Colombia has shown interest in purchasing four ships.


My project, Risenia is currently on a fact-finding stage. But Risenia is a kingdom, not a libertarian tax haven. Therefore, we can’t crowdfund the project and we can’t get angel investors for it. So our project is funded by a bunch of rich kids with more money than sense who want a piece of the action.

Unlike others, Risenia is not a community project. It’s a large scale project that plans to use the slow but cheap seacrete method to ‘grow’ our 5km^2 city at a much cheaper cost over extended period. Yes, I know that sounds silly, but that’s what the tests are for. If the seacrete tests and our prototype platform (planned, but still waiting for data from the seacrete tests) show that it’s pointless, then we’ll need to find another method to build the megastructure which will delay the project further.

We’re not hung up on seacrete, but seacrete seems to be the best method of construction for our purpose so far. Therefore, expect the project to actually show any real result after 10 years or so, about in time to save Kiribati at least. Probably too late for Vanuatu. Or maybe it’s the other way around.

As for refugees, we’re fully open to accepting them once the city is built. That is assuming we managed to complete building the megastructure. We do need labourers after all, and if we like any of them, we’d welcome them as sla - citizens.

However, we are not a charity organization. We accept people if they can help us fulfill our goals. I know that sounds cold, but we are trying to fulfill our childhood dreams. We have no time to be the beacon of human passion. Besides, even if we managed to complete the project on schedule, it will already be too late to do anything about the current refugee crisis anyhow.

For the record, I’ve only just realized that this thread is 3 months old. Damn you TSI forum and your random thread suggestions.

(Larry G) #27

coral atolls essentially “float” on the surface of the sea. When the sea rises, the atoll rises with it. They are not solid, like a rock island. They are a pile of sand and rubble. There is always material added and material being lost. Atolls exist in a delicate balance between new sand and coral rubble being added from the reef, and atoll sand and rubble being eroded by wind and wave back into the sea or into the lagoon. As sea level rises, the balance tips in favor of sand and rubble being added to the atoll. The result is that the atoll rises with the sea level.”

“Tourism has become the largest industry in the Maldives and the primary construction material used to build the expansive resorts is locally mined coral. Digging up the local coral to build plush hotels and large conference centers is as stupid sucking the air out of your lifeboat to breathe. The mining has severely compromised the atolls, creating the impression that the islands are sinking, when in fact they’re being dug up. The problem the Maldives faces is engineering lunacy – not a rising sea.”

(.) #28

Hehe-)), It all good.


While it’s true atolls can rise with sea level, the sea level might end up rising too fast for them to keep up. Especially when you factor in more extreme weather damaging them, and ocean acidification slowing down or halting coral growth.


AFAICT the only thing ‘floating’ on an atoll is the freshwater ‘lens’ and anything buoyant, as sea level rises. The only floating atoll I know of was the artificial one in Waterworld, which was a manmade floating, moored set of linked platforms, much like people speculate about, but nobody has linked any real data on it. I DO remember a film series called “Movie Magic” that had some info about the design, mooring, even that it was disassembled and towed to Disney in California, but nothing significant on the internet.

I fail to comprehend what y’all seem to think is floating. Perhaps someone could link to something with real data on this phenomenon?

(Larry G) #31

It’s a metaphor for describing how coral atolls keep up with water levels.

There are some sinking islands (subduction zones and shrinking/cooling volcanoes) and there are eroding coastlines (especially where barrier fringe reefs were dynamited for harbor access) but there’s no really good evidence for actual sea level rise.


Thank you. Mostly stuck to the cellphone, right now, so not able to do adequate searches, and I wasn’t getting the concept…

(Larry G) #33

It’s not just live coral growth, it’s also deposits from wave and wind and that is balanced by greater wind erosion once it gets higher above the average surroundings

It’s a complex process also affected by plants and animals.


… and currents.

[more text to create a 20-letter post :rage:]


So I’m happy to see that SI took this idea and ran with it. Thanks to it first seasteads are scheduled for production in 2019 in French Polynesia with the blue frontiers branch of SI.