Seasteading as a humanitarian cause

(Chris) #41

Almost any country you can stay outside 12 miles as much as you want. You won’t need a visa if the Pensionado thing works for you in Panama. You could stay within the 12 miles as long as you want then.

(Mark A Peaty) #42

As I pointed out before, insulation is only required around the outside of the ice. Obviously the initial freezing takes significant energy but it is delivered - as the coldness of air - in bubbles released about 20 metres below the surface. This method of freezing from below requires a minimum of piping and ensures that any cracks caused by flexing of the ice raft before it reaches full thicknes are repaired as very cold air rises up through the cracks and refreezes the block with stray water around the bubbles.

Given that the deep ocean has an inexhaustable heat sink of bottom water at 4 deg.C, maintenance of the integity of the ice island will not be a big problem. Furthermore the raising of nutriant rich bottom water and the raising of its temperature through absorpton of heat from the refrigeration process, will allow the growing of kelp/seaweeds as feedstock for biogas and biochar production. Also the nutriant enriched water flowing out of the kelp fields will support phytoplanktons which are the base of the near-surface food chain. This means that a big enough ice island will be surrounded by a sustainable natural fishery.

There is a clear, advantageous, synergy entailed in the use of ocean bottom water as heat sink. There is another synergy to be had in surrounding a floating island with wave energy collectors: the wave energy itself will be enough to power the base load required to keep the ice frozen, and wave action against the sides of the ice raft will be much reduced. Naturally, wind energy will usually be available for low voltage electric power, and solar thermal energy will drive Stirling engines for refrigeration compressors during the day. Solar thermal energy, if sufficiently concentrated, can also be stored hot enough to provide cooking heat available at any meal time.


You know, if that would apply to the usa and Canada, that would be great! For me, anyhow. For some time.


Mr Peaty, i respect your dedication to this idea, but i wonder if you have done the math for it’s costs. Since you are one of the few people here who understand the process (altho decades ago i heard of the raft built in the lake, and found it interesting), could you do some back of the envelope math for your preferred size basic raft, with basalt rebar to hold it together, sufficent purchased sawdust (or chipped hay, etc), and closed cell poly insulation (around the edges and across the top, at DIY prices)? And since it looks like the basic impediment to all seasteading ventures is the physical place to start, and since this isn’t a problem for the iceberg if done 100% at sea, lets even the playing field and figure the cost to make the ice itself, initially, before you have something to site the otec ice-sustaining facility on.

Because like you, i think this may be a good idea, and i wonder why it has not happened before now. Plus i am concerned about the price because Home Depot is selling 4x8 sheets of poly closed cell R10 for $40 a sheet. (that was the sound of my finances screaming in terror) I think that R10 is hardly enough when the ice is floating in 80F water, no matter how much organic material is mixed into it. White beadboard insulation was far far cheaper 15 years ago, until clean air rules made it impossible to make, and it deteriorated in UV extremely fast too.

I am picturing the look on the uscg when you say you cannot bring your vessel into port because it’s locked in the ice. In the Gulf of Mexico. In summer.

(Jonas Smith) #45

“The United States, Ms. Martel said, is “a Judeo-Christian nation.” "We are not a Muslim nation, and those two things cannot coexist,” she added.

A man asked if they could be sent on a plane to Saudi Arabia. When he was told that they could not, his frustration mounted. “Do we shoot them?” he asked, to laughter and applause.


For a ‘Judeo-Christian’ nation, we don’t have very many Jewish people… ~70% Christian/Catholic/etc, and <2% Jewish, and both are in decline…

As for not being able to coexist, that’s the fundamentalists that demand ‘convert-or-die’… Neither group actually paying attention to the words, or actions, of their savior, or prophet…

We have a world-wide humanitarian crisis. Outside of a disaster, or war-zone, the US has the highest rate of homelessness in the world. For such a ‘rich’ nation, we have a massive number of people in abject poverty, equivalent to that of the poorest nations in the world, while 1/10th of 1% of ‘the people’ hold the vast majority of that so-called ‘wealth’. Meanwhile, we have a government that continually starts wars, when it’s far cheaper to spread peace and goodwill.

  1. IMHO, abetter humanitarian task would be growing fish and seafood.

(Jonas Smith) #48

“As this invasion of Muslim colonization continues unchecked on American soil, we can only expect the same suffering now endured by EUROPE…”


America has been infected with a stupidity pandemic for a while now. Hope we come up with a decent vaccine for this sometime soon.

(Chris) #50

I agree, but socialism is very pervasive. How do you propose stopping it?


Socialism =/= stupidity…

(Chris) #52

Karl Marx would be so proud.


How does that disprove what Condor_Connor said?

(Chris) #54

I’m not sure I could disprove an opinion, no matter how misguided.


I think you’re the one with the mis-guided opinion here. The people who make America endemically stupid tend (at least the case in the link posted, and note I said TEND, that means NOT ALL, but MOSTLY) to be right-wing, not socialists. They are the complete other end of the political spectrum.

Also, socialism is not communism. Socialism equates to more taxes and more government services for the people. Look at Sweden or Norway. They are socialist, and they certainly aren’t stupid.

(Chris) #56

The people that make America stupid make up both wings. Left and Right. Each is trying to FORCE something on the rest of the country and expects them to be happy about it. The right is morally stupid and the left is economically stupid.

And since you bring up Sweden and Norway…

A Socialistic utopia is where everyone is economically equal. In other words Communism.


Not so fast, LOL. Socialism also equates to the government owning all the means of production and very little (more like close to ZERO) private property. That sucks.


When the government owns “stuff” it is collectivist like the Soviet Union was, it doesn’t really have much to do with communism or socialism where the workers have control of the workplace by voting or through workers councils which sounds less and less bad each day as the despots who have total control over business are not doing such a good job except to shut everything down and move it overseas.


And no I’m not Socialist, Communist or Capitalist I’m probably more of a mutualist with bits and pieces from the other systems.


It depends on how far socialist they are. They can be slightly socialist or super-socialist. Either way is still socialist.

Also, doesn’t change the fact that John’s: "

is essentially unfounded and pointless…