Research thread for French Polynesia


(Chad Elwartowski) #1

It’s been a while since I’ve been on here but anyone who knows me knows that I am serious about being one of the first seasteaders. From the initial news from French Polynesia I am cautiously optimistic that something may develop and I would like to start preparing for the possibility that French Polynesia authorizes the initial seastead pioneers.

I am about 2 years from “retiring” and being able to move forward with plans to live on the sea. For me that means either buying a sailboat or building a seastead. I am hoping that in 2 years the wheels will be turning so that I can participate in Polynesia.

So, I’d like to gather some information in this thread about what we might expect. Putting politics aside because we do not know yet about what might be negotiated. And please don’t let this thread degenerate into what should be built, who has the best ideas, etc.

Things I’d like to discuss:
Ship yards, marinas, places to build the initial platforms
Ideal phase 1, phase 2, phase 3 mooring locations
Expat visa requirements
Material costs (I hear most things in French Polynesia are more expensive)
Ideal locations for living before being able to move onto the seastead (cost, water access, etc)
liveaboard boat living locations/prices
Internet speeds in various locations

Anything else anyone wants to add on the assumption that TSI comes through on opening up French Polynesia for seasteading. I don’t believe it’s a waste of time or that “we should wait for TSI”. Opinions and ideas on the Internet are simple.


(Larry G) #2

Internet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honotua

BGAN/VSAT is available over most of the PAcific now- a situation that didn’t exist in much of the ocean even 10 years ago.

I have occasionally gleaned some useful peripheral information from this site:

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/island-buyers-guide

And then look for the community of folks already experiencing the location:

https://www.internations.org/polynesia-expats/guide

http://coconutradio.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/French%20Polynesia


#3

I rather like this as a starting point. Now all I need is a Powerball winning for the $8 million.

http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/en/objects/pacific-ocean/french-polynesia/buy/taiaro-atoll/


(Chad Elwartowski) #4

Would be great if it wasn’t protected by UNESCO. Any special economic zone French Polynesia provides will go out the window there.

Too bad though, starting a seastead inside an atoll would be a great Phase 1.


#5

Smaller, cheaper, and no mention of UNESCO:
http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/en/objects/pacific-ocean/french-polynesia/buy/manuhangi-atoll/


(Matias Volco) #6

I can fully sympathize with Martin and Nagasaki, but the phrase “best of both worlds” keeps popping up

http://www.martinpopplewell.com/the-real-castaway/


#7

Here is a housing guide. It has a good rundown on taxes. No income tax. But the property transfer tax is 17-25%

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Pacific/French-Polynesia

And for handy reference here’s the Wiki

The biggest obstacle I can see is that the primary language is French. I’m not so good at that one.


(Larry G) #8

In addition, Polynesian land titling is problematic. As elsewhere in the region, there are usually many owners, and all must give their permission to sell, which is often impossible to achieve.

They probably avoid this word in order to avoid accusation of racism, but the key issue here is communally held tribal land, with tribal inheritance law. The inheritance customs of the islanders across most of the Pacific are not as cut and dried as titles and deeds. The tribal leadership must give approval to transfers of land, and then on top of that the government’s soft racism of low expectations kicks in, and the government reviews to make sure rapacious foreigners aren’t taking advantage of innocent islanders.


#9

But that is really no different than Mexico and Hawaii, where you can buy and sell leaseholds but not actually title to land.

Land here in the US is nominally titled to you as a beneficiary from the party stole the land. I personally feel that taxes are justified on land (not property fruits of your labor, but real property - stolen land) because you have to pay the party ongoing fees to retain title to something they didn’t own in the first place. Rothbard goes into pretzels about it being legal if you don’t know the party it was stolen from, but that’s just a detail.

Since the Polynesian’s aren’t giving title to stolen land, they should be allowed to have the rules they want.

Being as we are seasteading, we make our own land. So we just need to pay whatever party is making the floating platform.


(Larry G) #10

Actually, you can get fee simple title to land in Mexico, it’s just a long, involved, expensive process. Most people don’t bother, but it can and continues to be done. Eventually, Mexico will catch up to the rest of the Western world on this, as individual plots finally get registered and titled until there are few enough outstanding that a push gets them very close to complete.

I’m not going to worry about theft of land invalidating the entire system. If all land ownership is theft, then it becomes meaningless to distinguish. If I hold it, I paid for it, and there’s no other existing person who can convincingly prove that I did something unethical to them, then it’s mine.


(Chad Elwartowski) #11

Finally a reason to use the 4 years of french I took in high school.

But as someone who lives in Germany but doesn’t speak german…it’s not that difficult. You mainly just need to figure out the words for numbers and food to get by.


(Chad Elwartowski) #12

No income tax, no capital gains tax. Those are very good for seasteaders. It appears that a lot of their revenue is tied to land.
“Property prices are around €2,300 to €3,000 per sq. m. (US$2,900 to US$3,800), at par with some Caribbean islands.”

Their property prices and difficulty of owning land makes seasteading an ideal alternative as selling/buying or renting seastead housing could be cheaper than living on land.

They are autonomous to France which means they have their own taxation but keep similar social laws due to continuity.

I did a lot of research on many countrys’ constitutions and most of these countries that had indigenous people had to write their laws in a way that kept the natives happy. Each new iteration of laws tends to phase out those compromises that were made with the tribes.


(Chad Elwartowski) #13

Ship building/repair:


(Alex Smith) #14

i think internet connection is very important for such projects, cause we want to introduce an life style to all the world.

so an internet connection to ensure all the events could be live on youtube is really a much have option.

and since its a experiment project, why not trying other options than the local ISP? for eg, both google and facebook have internet providing plan, for google, its project loon, which has already serving Sri Lanka at March 2016. and for facebook, they have solar drone for providing the station.

i say we could try to import both of them, let them be the competitors and have highly evolution in this project.

another problem is how we expand businesses. i think massive vertical farm might be the first choice. with the solar power and cheap shipping, we could producing cheap food and sell them to arround countries

finally, can we have some low tech material producing? like bamboo and coconut shell?


(Chad Elwartowski) #15

Internet for Phase 1 is fairly simple as it is in protected water so it will be close to shore. The best route for Internet in such an environment is either simple wifi to shore or a microwave antenna (which will require stability).

By the time we’re ready for Phase 2 there will be several options and we’ll be in a better place to theorize about options.

Internet speeds on land average around 3-4Mps which isn’t horrible.


(Alex Smith) #16

ok, can you take time to test for video live on youtube?


(Chad Elwartowski) #17

I’m not there.

There’s not really much necessity for live YouTube streams. There are plenty of YouTube channels where they record the video, edit it then send it out later in the day.


(Alex Smith) #18

also check this news about using solar power and sea water for farming


(Marc TREVISO) #19

Dear Sir,

I have an engineering consulting office in Tahiti and I think of be able to help you.

“Une ville flottante” (Floating city) is concerned by 2 ways: Building norms (Etablissement classés recevant du public/Establishment classified receiving public) and boat (Sécurité/Security, flottabilité/buoyancy, )

General building rules are grouped in a publication: “Le REEF”…
http://www.cstb.fr/archives/webzines/editions/webzine-batimat-2011/reef-electronique-20-ans-dinnovations-au-service-de-la-construction-durable.html

Service de l’Urbanisme: http://www.urbanisme.gov.pf/
Affaires maritimes: http://www.maritime.gov.pf/

Best regards.

Marc TREVISO.


(Larry G) #20

Page 90: Going Native in the South Pacific: The Advantages if Taking It Slow.