Register a seastead as a ship may not be completly convenient


(Wilfried Ellmer) #1

the treatment as a ship is not entirely convenient as it comes with “customary treatment” we do not really want - for example ABS, GL, Lloyds - paperwork and compliance…we want to be rather treated “like a ship in certain aspects” … as a “marina” in others…as “indian territory” in others, as “free trade zone” in others, “as port” in others -


the key is in “combining statuses conveniently” a ship is after all a unit to transport goods from port to port under two basic drivers the freedom of the seas and “container insurance quotes” - what is not EXACTLY what a “seastead development” does - so basicly “a suit that does not really fit”.


i have done my share of checking that out with the colombian government and authorities when the plan of the floating city project in the bay of Cartagena with a budget frame of USD 167 mill was on the table - as “resident manager” i did a "pre-check on the “frame of possibilities” in short - all this is possible and all this is possible to combine conveniently…no “new law” needs to be created …the “political will” to let us “take the best of any of those concepts” and put it together on a seastead in the bay of Cartagena is definitly there… relaxed - so all these “imaginary issues” “discussed for 7 years on the forums” are just that “imaginary issues” - the real driver is “as long as you stay clear from ugly4” - you can have any of those with only a few meter of shore distance…you do not even have to “register” … because “seastead register authorities” do not exist anywhere…and you can not be “obligated to a buerocratic process that does not exist”…


The base idea of “register a seastead as a ship” can be considered nonsense in the same way as it is nonsense to register a dog as a car. A seastead is obviously something clearly different to a ship - we might be best off to just insist that it IS something different.

Once you register a dog as a car you are in problems because at the moment you are officially “a car” the nice policeman will be in his full right to ask for a “exhaust certificate” (any car needs to have one) - but how do you get that exhaust certificate for a dog?..



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#2

I really doubt that DIMAR won’t have his hands on any floating operation anywhere in Columbia.

https://www.dimar.mil.co/en/content/vessel-procedures


(Wilfried Ellmer) #3

I have a very specific insight on that …


(Wilfried Ellmer) #4

A specific strategy how to get a optimized management of the convenince of statuses was developed - on public forums i will only give the big picture - specifics are discussed on the project management boards…being able to lead ventures trough these proceses is part my core value and service…

We help international companies to get a foothold and grow fast in Colombia Latin America, http://yook3.com Wilfried Ellmer


(Jonas Smith) #5

Any mobile platform on the ocean is required to be registered with a ship registry somewhere. Even oil rigs fly a flag. So if your seastead is mobile (or even potentially mobile) it will need to be registered with some nation and fly its flag.

So convenient or not, a mobile seastead will be treated as a ship, just like oil rigs are.


#6

[quote=“i_is_j_smith, post:5, topic:510”]
So convenient or not, a mobile seastead will be treated as a ship
[/quote]Sooo? Realy?! Dahhhh! How about your stationary seastead? That will be “treated” like what?


(Jonas Smith) #7

If it is permanently fixed to the sea floor? Then that is an “artificial island” or an “installation” or a “structure” and is not required to be registered with any nation’s ship registry.


#8

Keep on dreaming…


#9

And don’t forget to play the lottery.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #10

on any topic you can not get “certainty” - do a “pilot project” - to find out…this is the most “scientific development aproach” you can get…having a “strong opinion” on something you have not TESTED is just scholastics… the seasteading core values are grounded in Enlightenment…and science. - let’s reflect that how we discuss


#11

That’s in the real World. In Smith World, it’s the Lottery :smile:


#12

Please tell us what it will be treated like. A floating place to live 19 miles offshore of the usa in the GOM, with no propulsion. What is it, what will the uscg say it is, how will it be treated? Do any of your answers change based on the home’s weight or size? I seriously want to know.


(Jonas Smith) #13

I don’t understand? Why is that dreaming, and what does the lottery have to do with it?

It is pretty much black-and-white existing legal framework that anything mobile…or even potentially mobile…on the oceans is considered a “ship” or “vessel” and anything permanently fixed to the sea floor is an “artificial island” or “installation”. I don’t understand how that can be debated.


#14

I am no longer answering you posts or comments.


#15

Because only winning the lottery will give you the money to build your dream seastead on top of a seamount somwhere, dahhh.

And instead of being so fucking stubborn and insisting on “my way or the fucking highway” you could have been a bit flexible for all those fucking years and use your intelligence and resources to get something going by now.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #16

DIMAR is interesting because it is not a paramilitary enforcement agency like Coastguard, it has “support of new marine developments” hardwired in its constitution - that opens possibilities… a project management can work with…


(.) #17

USCG is a military entity, part of the US Armed Forces. It is not para.


(Bob LLewellyn) #18

[quote=“octavian, post:6, topic:510”]
How about your stationary seastead? That will be “treated” like what?[/quote]

If I may, I would like to address this. The answer is no one knows. Anything floating is classes as a ship but there is not a precedence for something situated on the oceans floor. So the territories around an existing sovereignty is said to belong to that sovereignty and they each make their own rules. An agreement with the sovereign is a valid contract enforceable in court. But more importantly no country wants to be seen as an oath breaker because then no one else will want to do business with a country that can’t be trusted.

So the answer to what it will be treated like is that it will be treated like an agreement or contract.

On the subject of the Coast Guard. We may have our problems with the government of the US, I certainty do, but to the men and women of the US coast Guard, I have nothing but the highest respect. There doesn’t seem to be anything that will stop them from doing their job.

I am one of those that do not like seeing the USCG used in the drug wars. However, if you have a boat load of drugs with a bill of lading showing the destination port, the CG will just set you on your way. Boats with no flag or one boasting the Jolly Roger will be taken into custody. The CG doesn’t make laws or interpret them, they act just like a computer program. It’s that which makes them as efficient and reckless as they are.

Bob


(Jonas Smith) #19

I’m not commenting on which type of seastead is the most likely or cost efficient. Ellmer implied that seasteads would be treated differently than ships, that they would use a “seastead register authorities” or something. I said that I believe seasteads, if mobile or even potentially mobile, will be treated like ships just like oil rigs are and thus will need to be registered with some nation’s ship registry.

You asked what stationary seasteads would be treated like, and I answered. If you don’t think I’m correct then please show some evidence to the contrary, but this has nothing to do with my own personal designs for a seastead.

Hello Kettle? This is Pot. You’re black.

BTW I love all the profanity…your e-anger is like sweet sweet candy to my ears…


(Jonas Smith) #20

There are a ton of existing artificial islands. Troll A. Draugen. Gullfaks. Just Google “condeep” and you’ll get tons of examples. These are all existing structures that are not ships or vessels and do not fly any nation’s flag.