I like these computer graphics pictures.
family house sized ramform
family house sized ramform with ship bow
I am picturing the wave approaching the open end of the funnel, building up, breaking thru the plate glass window doors on the lower two levels, and completely flooding them. And since the lower levels are not hermetically sealed : the engines, generators, and batteries were all ruined.
I prefer to live with the sea than in something designed to funnel waves into my living space, or try to ram and batter and plow thru them from the other side. Picture that too. The shape name “Ramform” reminds me of a Dodge truck, it’s like Ford’s “PowerStroke”, or other macho nonsense. Are you really going to build a 30ft high steel wall to ram into waves from one direction, and leave the rest of your home wide open to the waves??
@KatOnTri - thanks for the comment…keep working on the basic understanding of the turret mooring …marine wave ambients and engineering… - here is a good starting point to read up…
If you say the turrent mooring will solve waves approaching from all directions, you are saying it can predict the next wave, and determine if it’s dangerous, and push the RAMface around to present the biggest possible obstruction to it, properly?
By the way, i critiqued the RAMform, you critiqued me. You did not counter that one side of the RAMform is a funnel shape, or the effect that shape can have on waves and the floatie. You did not allow that the best the turrent can do is allow the floatie to be pushed around by the average of the wave directions, and the turrent cannot push the floatie around to prepare for the Next Big One. You have bad debating RAMform, sir.
Any floating structure at anchor will ride with the bow in the wind and incoming waves. How can the waves be coming from the opposite directions?
[quote=“KatOnTri, post:64, topic:640”]
And since the lower levels are not hermetically sealed : the engines, generators, and batteries were all ruined.
[/quote]Those assumptions of yours are nonsensical,…Who would build a seagoing structure without collision and waterproof bulkheads and decks?
[quote=“KatOnTri, post:66, topic:640”]
By the way, i critiqued the RAMform
[/quote]No you don’t. You are a basher… a “critic” is supposed to know what is he talking about.
The Ramform as shown might not be perfect but is by far one of the best seastead design “out there”.
How wierd they designed the ship to die if it got wet.
Here’s a lil bit more :
Soooo, Octavian, i am guessing waves “come from nowhere”, waves can appear from a calm sea (which would not turn the RAMface to the right direction), and usually arise from a direction other than the prevailing wave action. Looks also like ice-rated ocean tow boats are designed to get swamped by the stern and have all their engines shut down by water intrusion, i have uscg video somewhere of a crab boat being rescued which took a wave over the stern and killed the engines and it went to the bottom, and various other ships have taken on water and lost all electrical and propulsion, so i guess they DO design them that way, and i expect any one of the people will leave a water-tight hatch open too. A semisubmirsible oil platform went down off Canada one year from an open hatch taking waves, which killed the electronics, which killed the ballast controls, and it sank. There’s a lot more of this online if you just look for it. And one of my websites, which i took down because i am a loser and basher and everything else bad, was a pic of a cruise ship with the entire bow underwater.
Accidents happen at sea, ships sink left and right and waves over the bow is the norm out there. What this has to do with the Ramform?
It was clearly stated that the current Ramform design application would be for seasteading at anchor in semi-protected shallow waters (Cay Sal Bank) where there is virtually ZERO risk of rogue waves. And in fact, with minor design modifications, the Ramform will do much better than any ship in its class out in the open ocean under any sea conditions.
Is the Ramform unsinkable? No. Everything that float, no matter how big, can sink.
[quote=“KatOnTri, post:68, topic:640”]
i am guessing waves “come from nowhere”, waves can appear from a calm sea
[/quote]No they don’t. If you want to guess go play Jeopardy. There are no 70 ft rogue wave “appearing” from a dead calm. You have to be in a big storm, that’s where rogue waves form.
Then, if i ever contact those people i quoted, i’ll let them know you believe they are idiots for thinking such things happened to them.
All I’m saying is that rogue waves will not happen “out of the blue sky” in relatively calm waters or in shallow, protected waters.
I’ll grant you they cannot form on Cay Sal Bank, simply because they cannot form a trough deeper than the ocean bottom. Ditto the bank on the other side of the channel, the bank the big Andros island sits on.
But, reports from large ships, ocean rated, of taking on water causing loss of engines, says that phenomenom happens to new ships. And i gave quotes from people who said the water was “calming”. One was from a wave that rose up like tsunamis do, on a reef, following the boat, and broke over it because it could not sustain height in the shallows. I respect you have experience, Octavian, but some people have experiences that somewhat disagree with you. I am just reporting them, because i believe reports like those concerning freak waves not coming from the same direction as the regular waves, will sink those ramfaces in seconds. Even tho i tend to agree with you when you said “Who would build a seagoing structure without collision and waterproof bulkheads and decks?”, it’s apparently done, today, just look at almost every fancy cgi on this site (or on Ellmer’s) to see water-level doors and whole walls made of glass.
The fact of the matter is that there are always “rogue” waves out there. And they don’t have to be 70 feet high, but just “out of the ordinary” for the sea state at the moment they happen. And it’s true that they are coming “out of nowhere” and you won’t know what hit you,…
I had witness the phenomena myself close to shore, about 4-5 nm offshore Cape Lookout NC in 7-8 foot seas on my friend 37’ sailboat. The engine died on us while returning to Beaufort NC and we where sailing, he was doing repairs bellow deck and I was at helm when out of the blue we got hit by a 10-15 foot wave which broke across the bow, swept everything on deck, filled the cockpit with seawater, heeled us 60 degrees and we almost broached… It took 2 seconds and than we were back to “normal”,…
It’s the same at different levels, in really bad storms, some old sailors told me. The bigger the storm, the larger a rogue wave can be. And the worst part is that there is nothing that can be done about it since there is no warning therefore no reaction time (at helm, I mean). If you get hit, you’ll know it only after you got hit.
Far from me to disagree with people who got hit by rogue waves, and by “calming” probably they meant the seas where not 25 feet but 20…But you need some wind and wave action for the phenomena to manifest at any level, it won’t happen in dead calm waters for sure.
[quote=“KatOnTri, post:72, topic:640”]
it’s apparently done, today, just look at almost every fancy cgi on this site (or on Ellmer’s) to see water-level doors and whole walls made of glass.
[/quote]Those are houseboats with low freeboard for really calm or protected waters or lakes.
Thank you for writing down those experiences.
I still had some questions about the positioning a boat or a floating structure,
but now I get it, that the wave hits, and reaction is after.
Though the Queen Mary vitnesses said “… it seemed a long time for the wave
to arrive …” (not an exact quote).
The don’t leave that door open like that 24-7. It’s open to deploy or retrieve small floaties. In addition, the ship rises or sinks to dry or flood the bay (like a floating drydock).
i am glad that we are making progress on marine engineering basics understanding…the value of any thread is moving the general knowledge base forward…you see the obvious now - so i assume you have read up the pointers…thanks for no longer standing in the way of thread progress - welcome to informed talk - you understand (hopefully) what the nosense was contained in the earlier posts (@octavian tried to explain…) what caused venturing far from “picture the ramform” thread topic …are we on the same page now? Accepted working hypothesis “unprotected stern features are feasible”…
I do not believe we are making any progress on basics, not when you equate the USS Arlington or the USS Anchorage with a ramform. They are very different.
don’t think it is necessary to discuss the obvious in lenght - at this point the auditorium should either get it or go back and read up the basics in the links supplied…to catch up with the level of the talk…your base hypothesis “you can not have a unprotected stern feature” was treated sufficiently in my universe. Talking design with people that do not understand the basics is pointless and unnecessary. Our design team has the options and limitations of stern features very clear - the design reflects that - we are not going into lengthy doodler education … especially not if the doodlers are “learning resistant and wana be designers of their own” at the same time … it is not about personal ego - it is about making progress and good business practice.
No, it wasn’t. You are spouting bs again. The sterns of the ship you gave picture of does not sail around with it’s stern open. And do these two ships (2.74MB, so you can zoom in), one of which you gave pic of today, look anything like a ramform? But you say you can seal up the 200ft or 300ft wide funnel of a ramform like those fofo ships seal up? Not bloody likely. Show me. Otherwise, any location you give for a seastead on one of your wide-arsed ramfaced pics, i will mark on my chart as a submerged obstruction.