Offshore aquaculture | realistic projects | big business | seafood | ocean colonization | ocean ranching | oceanic investment | world food security | oceanic business alliance

(Wilfried Ellmer) #61

We are in a transition as a civilization right now - since the rise of DILMUN the legendary folk from the persian golf that established sea trade with India in oceangoing vessels in Sumerian times. (5000 years ago) Up to the 21th century - the only thing humans did on the ocean is hunt or cross it with freight. This simplistic and little dfferentiated approach made, that the ships of Dilmun, the Vikings, and a modern freighter are very similar in their base idea and have evolved surprisingly little.

What comes up now is that we will colonize the ocean and domesticate it - as we did land. It is obvious that new generations of floating structures that go BEYOND ships and boats will be necessary.

Hypothesis: In a few years we will see a lot of stuff that looks different, works different, than a “ship” on the ocean.

| @Spark - building technologies (type jenga) as you suggest in your yahoo group may well be part of this wave of invention that paves the way to ocean colonization…

“The ships of Dilmun” mentioned in Mesopotamia can be pictured something like this…(according to Arab archeology) - Interestingly a “shell first construction

modern oceanic container freighter | the same base setup as 5000 years ago...little change ...

@spark - seen from the right distance the containers making big part of the “oceanic transport assembly” already look like a giant “jenga”…means your suggestion is not “so exotic” after all…

(.) #62

I might be reading too much of anarchist / libertarian literature,
but I would like to say that , I would like to keep sensationalism as low as possible.

There are going to be people who want to ride the wave of sensationalism both way.
Some are going to inflate and emphasize the benefits, others are going to emphasize
the harm,

I just want to keep my nose to the grinding wheel, dig the gold, and keep it.
Let the chips fall where they may, and all can benefit.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #63

@spark, at the oceanic business alliance we have a "less is more" approach to politics in general...

being HUB and PORT implies avoiding extremes and pitfalls:

The idea of running a seastead as a port and a hub for a large number of businesses implicates that a seastead can NOT do the following things:

  • it can not be run by a “sectarian closed society” it needs to be open and metropolitan for business reasons.
  • it can not be formed from lego style special elements that do not allow normal ships to dock.
  • can not be a DEFIANCE place that poses a “threat” or a “thorn in the eye” to members of global trade networks.
  • i can not be exclusive, it can not be extreme, it can not be “center of war against” anything.
  • It needs to come along well with EVERYBODY to comply its function as a international HUB.
  • like Venice it needs to be hub for goods, ideas, cultures, and a place that is free of “walls against” and witch hunts.
  • its politics needs to be based in “broker conflicting interests” instead of being a strong proponent of one side.
  • this means any ideas of establishing “weired special societies” or the reign of “strange rules” need to be “taken with caution” because they hurt business and shu investors and clients.

It needs to be a place where free investors and business want to opt in instead of opt out.

Taxing as form of getting funds needs to be taken with caution, rather a model that brings in funds by offering paid services to the trade and shipping community is recommended.

(cargo storage, load consolidation, space and crane rental, transshipment services, inspection services, arbitrage services, etc. etc.)

but that is probably something for another thread .... i am starting to be off topic...

(.) #64

anarchist literature:
I mostly disagree with it but I like the these lines

“The wise man paints himself in the dull colors of the forest
And quietly waits for the stag that will feed his family.”

(.) #65

All I have is landlubber symbolism.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #66

@spark | The more sectarian and “off the grid lifestyles” would be rather suited for the “lonley ocean ranger” in his “ocean sphere” rearing tuna (ocean cattle) with his family, independent and pretty much insolated, if he wants so.

While the “floating port city” would keep things open and cosmopolitan by default due to the nature of the business it engages.

Hypothesis: In Seasteading it is never a A versus B thing - that must be discussed controversially until one side wins the argument - it is a “all of it” in its due frame and context on an island of his own.

Hypothesis: there can not be a “my patent approach only” future to seasteading. It is about multiple approaches in multiple projects with multiple base ideas.

In this picture created by Matias Volco you see traditional yachts in a marina style setup, ramform, spar, ocean sphere, and light shell domes, are all comming together as a floating city on the ocean. It is not either or - it is all of it.

(.) #67

Thank you for the lecture.

(.) #68

You owe me nothing. Have a salmon!

(Larry G) #69

Kevlar is not good for puncture-proofing things. The benefit to Kevlar in bullet-proofing things is that is is very stretchy and turns fast movement into heat without breaking the fibers. But you can stab a person right through a bullet-proof Kevlar vest. I am certain a shark would bite through it with no problem.

(.) #70

Yes, it is interesting that a big container ship resembles to the -jenga- idea.
I also built similar shape out of LEGO blocks. (no picture)

(.) #71

Well, if you are certain, than OK for you. I do not have anything made of kevlar yet.
I like the metal things better, because of biorock can be grown on it.

Other than that, I have a box of jenga.

(Larry G) #72

I have lots of things made of Kevlar. I used to own a firearms/military surplus store. I have all kinds of interesting mil-spec toys. I am quite certain Kevlar is not good to protect against sharp things moving relatively slowly.

(.) #73

Yes , thank you I understand you view about kevlar.
Now, on the topic:offshore agriculture, How about copper wire?

(.) #74

May be a bit more about the jenga and the steel container.

I saw that movie: All Is Lost. His sailboat collides with a steel container.
Some of the ideas of how to survive such a collision, when the boat would be
severely damaged, is to leave the boat and climb on the container.

What to do on the container? I donno. Survive, I guess.

Another idea is; how to salvage a container that fell in the water but not sunk, is
to carry an extra set of rig, and put up a jury rig on the container and sail it to land.
So, to approach it with a sailboat and bring extra set of rig. It would take two persons.

How could this be farther developed: to develop a hull around the steel container to
make it more hydrodynamic. So with a set of jenga like blocks to build a hull around the

Now this could develop into a way of building a floating structure. The container would
give structural strength to the floating hull, and some outside material can make the
container more hydrodynamic.

With a small jury rig like something it can be sailed.
Some large boats were sailed with a jury rig, for example at the recent Vendee Globe;
Conrad Colman finished the last few hundred miles using a jury rig.
Others like Maud Fontenoy used a jury rig to complete an oceanic voyage.

Combining many of these ideas; an affordable vessel could be built, maybe, or not.

In my opinion “the vote with your boat” idea requires owning a boat.

There could be large floating structures too with people stuck on them.

Those who have a boat get a vote.

(Matias Volco) #75

(Wilfried Ellmer) #76

This kind of structures for fish farming are around for more than 1000 years mostly in Asia known under the term “KELONG” - some are afloat some based on stilts.

spar structures (made of bambu) spread out nets | the fischer lives in the central hut…

Their economic feasibility is well understood and solidly tested…so the chineese claim of “worlds first” for the above steel structure is a bit overstated…to say the least…

The project fusions “off the shelf oil tech” and “good old Kelong tech” - that is all. Somewhat “overtech” for economic feasible fish farming - less is more… a lot of fast rotting and expensive to maintain marine steel - (type oil rig ) to “guard a couple of fish”… this kind of “cost structure” is feasible for “billion dollar oil bounty tech” - for fish enclosure ? - doubth it.

Typical for a Government-Government project with Chineese state bank - finance… politics and prestige over economic reason…the planning phase is a mess and structurally rigged to crank out work for the chineese steel and shipyard industry which is dependent of state subvention - what leads inevitably to unreasonable solutions (would not participate again) - been there, done that …

Light cement composite honeycomb and truss shells can stand marine corrosion for decades, are easy repair, economic to build, and can be built weight neutral in sea water. They are shark bite proof. Large amounts of fish in the open sea inevitably call in those fellows who use to bite trough normal netting to get the fish inside. (check on today´s tuna rearing operations ).

So a better enclosure is needed. Steel is ruled out for corrosion. Cement composite structures are ideally suited.

Like always the “next big thing to come” is just a relativly small step from what we see today on the cutting edge of ocean domestication. The business men who have a foothold on this frontier become billionairs…

Context: The new global elite

Context: Ocean fertilization | pasture management | tuna cattle |

Context: Evolutionary line of seasteading

This is probably a much better base configuration as the vulnerable net is protected by a bow.

To run the whole operation in a underwater configuration like a space station is probably the best choice.

The sea has a way to fatigue and break all things that are installed on the surface - the problem decreases exponentially with depth…

oceanic business alliance | foothold in ocean colonization technology | @nautilusmaker | make a fortune on the new frontier… | disruptive investment | key player network |

Aquaculture vision | Matias Volco | oceanic business alliance

context: ancient marine powers - technology bottleneck | we can solve it now

hypothesis: Today we have a shot to create “New VENICE” | the driver will be the new elites.

Oceanic fish enclosure cages as they exist today…

The economic drivers of New Venice will be along the big [5 industry fields]( of ocean colonization.

The big five business fields of ocean colonization: | oceanic transport | oceanic energy | oceanic real estate | deep sea mining | oceanic aquaculture |

The four fundamental quests of ocean colonization : | The quest for interference freedom | The quest for mobility | The quest for oceanic resources | The quest for space on the planet |

Meta Topics:

Axes of ocean colonization: | Main Axes | Plate Seastead | Floating Real Estate | Catamaran concept | Captain Nemo Concept | Floating Breakwater Concept | Submerged Living Space Bubble Concept |
Concepts: / Lens shell pictures overview / / Ramform floating home pictures / / c-shell floating home pictures / / Floating concrete building methods / / shell cluster pictures / / investor proposal list /

context: The submarine dimension of ocean colonization | 99% of the space reserve for human expansion is in the watermantle of the planet…

Oceanic Business Headquarters | doing business global | interference free | subdue to nobody |

The seasteading principle of a “wave impact safe dome”, here shown at the bow of a commercial ship.

Why i can not “attend anybody” on a 7,5 billion planet…those who rule themselfes out as umpalumpa need to be ignored and margined form the thread for the sake of progress… The Thread Starter

. . . . . .


Now the Elmo’s Ass. crew is recycling older posts from this same thread …

… there must be some commercial links to commercial crap from Elmo’s Ass. that they’re hoping to promote.

Same sh*t … different day.


Except purposely mislabeling a fish farm as an oil tank… WTH? How is it even possible to misconstrue fish net as an oil tank?

(Thibaut Labarre) #79

Di Caprio is investing in this space:

(Wilfried Ellmer) #80

@Asimov4 … thanks for the link ! :+1: