Modular Extension | Connectors | Cellular expansion | Building Technology


(.) #96

rubberbandchain


#97

Why don’t you enlighten us, the clueless souls of seasteading who have no “idea whatsoever about floating offshore structures capable of absorbing even the most modest dynamic offshore wave action forces” about this “magic ring woven used tire technology” of yours?


(Chad Elwartowski) #98

I often see what equates to “none of you have thought about…” about seasteading. Nobody considers the fact that most of us here think about every minute detail of seasteading, everyone probably has several designs in mind, the power systems, the water/waste/food production. Everything. If you search through the forum or go back long enough you’ll probably find discussion of every aspect of seasteading including what is used for connecting platforms. It comes up for almost any design proposed if it’s not obvious or a new idea.


(Larry G) #99

You have to admit a lot of it is ill-informed fantasy, but yes, people here are trying to think of everything. What we lack is practical progress in building a permanent solution dedicated to wholistic at-sea lifestyles.


#100

We lack a dedicated facility for accessing the information, shops to model, wave tanks to test, supply storage, shops to build and a place to launch… As well as land based support facilities and supply infrastructure, once offshore.

Many of us have refined and honed our ideas here, but need such a dedicated facility to even begin making anything work, let alone floating them in real-world form.

Modeling and wave-tank testing can help identify potential problems with stability.


(Bob LLewellyn) #101

While I may take your criticisms personally, I am certainly not going to lose any sleep over it. To be insulted, one would have to respect the person throwing insults, and I assure you, that part is missing.


(Gerd Weiland) #102

Dear octavian as i had stated yesterday in my reply to the forum i did not intend to insult anybody least of all those who sincerly persue the dream of offshore independence–no matter how unqualified the methodology of this persuit may seem to others–My problem is that the seastead institute which proportedly serves the commen goal of facilitating a feasable offshore seastead independence for all seastead pioneers–has become in my opinion, as subservient to elitest interests as the majority of political representation around the world today—pray tell me what has been actually accomplished with all that donated cash towards achieving a down to earth manifestation of a realistic seastead prototyp platform beyond those pretty hypothetical concepts in internet? A viable offshore prototyp apon which all seastead models and configerations can evolve, should be indeed the top priority of our collective efforts–however and please excuse my blunt insensitive to ego style–this has become a buisness model for the seastead institute through years of expensive self promotion, with no conclusive result beyond the obvious selfsatis-fiction of those involved for years on end in this tedious seastead self portrayal. Where is the pioneer spirit beyond your PC gone–Why are those many poor peoples who are fed up with a system that has no sustainable future for them let alone their children,
denied the ability to co-create affordable seastead plattforms which they can afford to build by themselves? If your really want to educate yourselves towards understanding the simple (magic) Ring-Weave principle, all you need is a used biycle innertube which can be cut into slices in a width proportion of 1 to 4—The Ring-Weave Technology, whereby closed rubber rings are then interwoven together by alternatly overlapping and penertrating each other to create 2 & 3 dimensional homogenic bodies of any size or shape with no connections to fail, encorperates (if one substitutes the rubber innertubes with the steel reinforced scrap tire tread after removing with a carpet knife the outer walls) the marine engineering prerequisit to assemble indestructable floating seastead structures which can absorb the dynamic forces encountered offshore. Thats it folks–Ring Woven structures represent a totally new field of marine engineering based on tensegrity mechanics to uphold structral integrity–The Ring-Web System represents a quantum leap in our ability to design and manufacture affordable safe offshore plattforms without specialized tool or training. I hope that anyone reading this can creatively reproduce for themselves unlimited seastead design variations as scale models with rubber biycle tubes. Realistic affordable seastead ffloating platforms can be cheaply and easily reproduced in real life by substituting the raw product with scrap tires. With little or no costs in san fransisco bay. Why not induce the Seastead institute to persue constructive local initiatives which would be glad to aquire a positive Upcycle image by encorperating existing municiple scrap tire collection systems? --This is called product marketing-- A basic competence in seastead representation-- i hope this latest contribution to the seastead movement is not burdened with undue personalized objections to my style. I am afterall just a rather simple uneducated german seastead man. happy earthday


(Bob LLewellyn) #103

We had a seastead built and ready to go, all we needed was a way to pay for it. We know how to hold barges together, fully loaded ones, us a 4 inch hemp hawser. We use 12 in wooden bumpers to protect the barges. It seems every new person has to go through the how before they get to the why. That is the same mistake TSI seems to be making. What is the market. Why would anyone want to pay good money to occupy the ocean?

Marinea answered that, it was to be a roadside plaza between Miami and Cuba. In fact it would be the only rest and refueling station in that 150 mile stretch. It would contain a general store for food and other provisions, a restaurant /bar for the locals and travelers and a hotel if you need a break from the boat. It has a fueling station already but only diesel, we would add a tank for gasoline.

It would also be a place to go when you have had your fill of big government. We have shown several ways people could make a living out at sea. We answered the why before we even talked about the how. Where I failed was counting on support that never materialized. Your idea of “collective efforts”, that’s what the Marinea project was supposed to be. It started right here on the forum. If you want to know how far we got, go to marinea.org. However, there is no support from TSI, little from the forum and the Libertarian party, is run by fools.

So who really wants a real village at sea? Hardly anyone. Who wants a vision of Shangri-La? The place is full of them.

So how would a seastead fair in a storm? Well we didn’t do so well in this one.


(.) #105

For a minute, I thought the dog ate my home work. Again.


(.) #106

May be a bit of pioneer spirit beyond pc. The phrase ‘pioneer spirit’ reminds
me to Nirvana: Smells Like Teen Spirit. May be: smells like pioneer spirit.

I found a used tire on the road. I picked it up and I brought it home.
I cut the rims off. I got a belt like something with lots of steel wires sticking
out of it. I cut it in half alongside to get two belts. I looped the to belts
together like rubber bands. It took some wrestling skills to do that manually.
An electric saw proved to be useful during the cutting.

This can be done with more tires and a long link chain of rubber bands can
be made for probably a mooring line.

I guess cutting four rubber bands out of a tire is possible. I do not know
how strong that is, but there is some steel reinforcement in the rubber.

So far so much. Thank you for the tip.
I wish you well;


(.) #107

So , anyways about building technologies:
Biorock/seacrete and three dimensional printing:
A nozzle with seawater dripping from it, and two electrodes on the
two sides of the nozzle. The two electrodes are fed from a solar panel
with about 12V DC. Every time the nozzle drips, the seawater drip short
circuits the electrodes, and completes the circuit. At that point Mg(OH)2
and Ca(OH)2 precipitate in the drop. When the drop falls down the water
drains away and leaves a solid deposit. Later this solid deposit of Mg(OH)2
and Ca(OH)2 absorbs CO2 from air to form CaCO3 and MgCO3 and the
material becomes similar to limestone or seashell kind of material.
If this dripping nozzle with the electrodes is placed on a 3D printing moving
mechanical device that is controlled by a computer limestone kind of
structure can be 3D printed from seawater using solar electricity.

It sounds like a wild idea. Some might argue that the limestone material
would be redissolved in the seawater, but the equilibrium favors the solid
because seawater is highly saturated by Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions. And
practical experience shows that seashells are not readily dissolved in
seawater.

Multiple nozzles might be possible.

More experimentation might be necessary. I just did not want to keep
this idea as a secret.


(Chad Elwartowski) #108

Seems like an interesting concept. When I am able to I would like to do a small experiment with this to see what is created.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #111

@spark

The tire weave strings you show in this thread may have some use as “pretension creating element” - what can be useful for wave exposed floating structures on larger scale where material cost is an issue. We did some of that in the experiments asociated to the “poor man´s floating island” project - you can google it.

Pretension is an important topic in very large floating platforms (VLFPs) - this element can create the necessary tension forces in the build, easy and economic, being corrosion resistent at the same time.

Certainly an asset to think about, when talking about advanced cement composite structures for ocean colonization on low cost base - rethinking the material list for the fiber components of a floating island.


(.) #112

I am glad you like it. I am glad that you see more use of it than I do.
I found one drawback: the lifespan of a car tire is 50 to 80 years.

Usual time of a tire on a car is about 2 years.
The decomposition of a used tire is 50 -80 years.

Not even car tires lost for ever.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #113

The lifespan of materials embedded in a artificial light rock matrix is very different to what the same material would have on open air. Steel rebar - used for pretension build in present oceanic structures lasts a few weeks in the open in marine ambient - embedded it lasts for more than 200 years (guaranteed) and is expected to last some 2000 years ( like roman marine concrete ).

Tire weave can be expected to last much more - certainly not less.


(.) #120

There is some interference here. I donno where it comes from.
Well, anyways. Rubber covered steel mesh is strong.
Stronger than steel and stronger than rubber.


#121

No one will, unless it is profitable. I say that as a seasteader right now, I live on a boat.

There are a lot of ways to make money, as a tax haven, floating condos, convenience store (Marinea), tourism, exploration, etc. None of them are very profitable or compelling, because better alternatives already exist.

Tax free, Regulation free, manufacturing, could be extremely profitable. I guarantee the cost is at least 50% less than land based manufacturing. I am not sure if that is valid against China however, it depends on the labor component. That kind of cost savings will get investors to sit up and take notice.

Add in the additional benefit that the manufacturing can take place almost anywhere and there can be shipping savings too, not to mention the fact that If I was to build a boat in Tahiti or any nice location my wife would be much happier.

Once the floating Manufacturing niche has been realized, the gold rush will be on and a boom to rival China’s growth. A side effect will be cities surrounding the manufacturing centers.


(.) #122

Yes, I agree. I think, it is the rubber that breaks down within 80 years.


#124

I never said “so big” Wil. All I said was, and I quote:

"Now, I don’t really have a problem with “rounded hulls”, other than the fact that building them will take more time and cost much more than “straight” ones, mostly in labor.

Assuming the same construction method (steel reinforced concrete) bending rebar, frames, beams, bulkheads, etc. to rounded design specs it’s a precision, time consuming labor. Also, the whole rounded structure will have to be a continuous concrete pour, no way around it.

On the other hand, the “straight” structure could be built completely prefab, at any LOA. Much cheaper."

There is also the case for degree of modularity and “ease of rafting up” when choosing the shape of those “seasteading modules”.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #125

@Octavian | I would not take the discussion of boxy versus round or the discussion modular raft up versus continuous freeforming to a religious plane, where we cast tons of ink on it, without comming to a final conclusion ever.

It is not about A versus B - it is all of it - in a combination that is convenient and economic to build.

The good thing is that we don´t have to come to a final decision by discussion and consolidation here either.

The decisions what methods and proposals are a go and which ones a no go will neither be taken by TSI nor on this forum.

It will be taken by markets, investors and moneystreams who will decide which proposal of ocean colonization flourishes and which goes down the drain. So relax, do your thing, work the markets rather than the heated forum discussions.


If you promote boxy lego style island raft up you should be aware of the destiny of the Mullberry Harbor and the lessions this engineering disaster gave us. You should also be aware why the next project in the evolutionary line the Monaco Floating Breakwater project is 352 m and 175 thousand tons as engineering understood how size matters when rafting up boxy things that move with the waves in storms in close proximity. If you have read up and absorbed that, and still believe in the concept - go ahead and do it - and tell me how it went.