Agreed. But it’s more than the chemical, physical materials properties. The shape matters a whole lot too. In your surface sheet example, you could make a buoyant enough sheet to support considerable weight spread over a large area, could make it pretty tough to puncture, but the shape is still an issue because spray over the edge and rain will still accumulate. I know this is a thought experiment, not a design. What I’m pointing out is that we are constrained by both materials characteristics AND by design characteristics to a finite number of combinations. Even more so when we add the element of cost.
Modular Extension | Connectors | Cellular expansion | Building Technology | Advanced Cement Composites
Yes that is the point. The things you can do are more or less limitless and only restricted by the power of imagination of the builder.
Here in Colombia for example we have a material called Guadua . In your country they call it Bamboo.
People make rafts out of it - imagine it in combination whith sprayed polyurea sheets and the light rock material in the video above - it is quite obvious that you can do a lot of interesting things with that, when it comes to working on the watersurface, and make a first construction layer on it.
Althogh these natural segmented tubes have at least the toughness and strength of a similar sized aluminium tube - they are obviously not "code conform".
Do i now suggest to make a seastead out of bamboo ? Not really - but what the example does is showing that your selection and cost of materials you can consider to use in your composite structures also widley depends on your local supply situation . ( Guadua costs next to nothing here )
While you would consider a ice sheet as first construction layer in Canada (Habakkuk ice ship), you will consider a bamboo composite in the tropics.
In the “poor man´s floating island - project” we took a somewhat different approach of combining materials to a floating island of “lowest possible cost”, to give poor people floating homes in the floodplaines of the Magdalena river (Government investigation project). This approach depends on a form of “material supply” that is “non code conform” in your country, but very doable in other parts of the world from India to South America.
They told Thor Heyerdahl that balsa rafts couldn’t make it to Polynesia- and there WERE problems. But there were also some interesting benefits.
As for code conformity, there are certain expectations of safety and risk management nowadays that are clearly good ideas, but weren’t in place when many traditional methods were developed. Codes are limited in that they are inherently conservative implementations of what has already worked before- they aren’t intended to be experimental or new. Much like engineering is not science- science explores boundaries and engineering implements the known. There are certain new, experimental, and unknown things which can’t be engineered- only tried empirically. You and I definitely agree on this point.
But in the course of that experimentation, new codes can be developed to give confidence. Building codes aren’t bad things in themselves.
RE: rafts- I have given serious consideration to building a modern materials version of Thor Heyerdahl’s raft with the intent of being an ocean platform.
Key elements in my mind are:
-longitudinal strength of individual structural elements, with:
-loose lateral coupling to provide flexible movement with waves, avoid suction forces during sag
-length proportional to average wavelength of seas to be encountered to minimize hog/sag
-width proportional to length and minimums for occupation
-materials resistant to UV, corrosion, cold, and bio-accumulation and inherently buoyant
Then use modern understanding of aero/hydrofoils to provide steerage using combinations of dagger boards or lee boards, sail, and using an on-board generator, electric motors for vectored propulsion in close quarters. I could really see it being a Caribbean, Mediterranean, or Gulf of Siam type of permanent liveaboard solution.
@thebastidge | Larry the topic of code conformity needs a longer (pictured) explanation with real world examples - that i will write up off forum and then post a link to the text. Is that ok with you as forum admin ?
I am not going to do a longer write up here just to see it later deleted by one of the forum admins (as it happened earlier)...my time is of value and i am fanatic of "efficient processes".
A good place for that is the Wiki if the intent is to freely provide it to the seasteading community.
Guadua is also an element that allows quick economic building of light domes as suggested in our “bubble cluster concept” …
It allows a concept where the “fiber component of the build” gives the form and at the same time it works as “scaffolding” for the workers to access the dome in construction… this is extremly smart and cost efficient - but not code conform…
wooden cabin hidden in a rock made of sprayed concrete…not code conform… but still a interesting building technology.
If the sprayed material would be “extraordinaryly light” it is quite obvious that this opens new worlds for construction…
Floating Rock | Wilfried Ellmer Group |
Postulate: A floating city should be built out of something that allows the structure to still float, even if it gets filled with water. No modern safety certified ship hull can meet this criteria - but a seastead should .
At the Oceanic Business Alliance we commit to a building strategy that is taking the safest safety standard in use today, and approves on it - but it is still non code conform and needs the code free ambient of seasteading to be deployed.
Modular, Connectors, have been repaced by something far better - “ongoing limitless freeforming on the ocean surface”.
Poor man´s floating island | a experiment made with the government of Colombia to solve the issue of periodical flooding of villages on the shore of the Magdalena River.
Project objective : build a floating base that can carry a hut or a small house as economic and simple as it can get.
We selected the materials for this composit floating island specificly along those project criteria.
Outcome: USD 50/ squaremeter is within technology reach ... and room to go...
Could a Seastead be the first country to implement a Universal Basic Income?
Lots of vessels float even if capsized or filled with water. It’s also one of the criteria in the concrete canoe contest.
Sailing vessels are designed to be righted by standing on the keel.
That doesn’t scale to live aboard size but the concept s out there.
Other vessels are designed to right themselves should they roll completely over. In these cases they are designed to keep the water mostly out while they roll. And then there are water tight internal bulkheads to prevent flooding inside the hull all at once. The ship has to be designed for the weight of a flooded compartment or two causing shear stress between flooded and unflooded compartments, of course.
The concrete canoe competition is actually a very good example to point out -
• How the sistem works,
• Why it does not produce the rapid progress needed
• How things can be improved involving seasteading.
(I will dig in with pictures off forum at the link above)
Well, being sponsored by Portland Cement producers, it’s inherently limited in materials possibilities.
Sure this makes the Portland Cement (bonder) the only composite-component you can NOT change in the concrete canoe competition - those are their rules. This limits the “field of experimentation” a bit - no doubth.
On the other hand allow resin bonders like epoxy would blurr the awe and the reason of the “concrete canoe competition” and a “resin bonded canoe” would just be a “normal canoe” in all its aspects …
The idea of the concrete canoe competition is finally to show (to the jaw dropping average joe) what a “not code restricted” (first semester) engineer can do with portland cement - and “get a whow effect” on concrete (cement composite) construction.
If we go that way we could just explain it as a gigantic surfboard! or unsinkable plastic kayak…
my dear seasteader-- you were last on the line so dunna take the following message personaly–neither yu ol bean nor anybody else on this seastead forum, as i have found to my distress, has any idea whatsoever about floating offshore structures cabable of absorbing even the most modest dynamic offshore wave action forces which will be experienced. Non of those pretty concrete cyberspace bathtub designs displayed on your website would survive any kind of offshore storm – As i believe i did so, at least 5 years ago on your website–any interconnected structure of the dissplacement size and shape, let alone structural integrity, which you continue to propose, can survive the swimming pool environment they were obviously concived because such dubious designs will definatly fail at the connection points–The only structural mechanics cabable of absorbing the de and compression forces encountered are flexible structures built through the application of an innovative development in weaving technology called the Ring-Weave, whereby closed rubber ring-bands are interwoven together into homogene 2 & 3 dimensional surface areas or hollow bodies—The Ring-Weave technology when applied to the re use of scrap automobil tyer treads, provides a rubber coated raw product with which to Ring-Weave build indestructable floating island seasteads of any shape or size which absorb wave action on the outer perameter to generate electric power the center remaining relativly stable to errect habitation. Ring woven seastead structures can be built for virtualy nothing by Seastead pioneers and hard work—not just duds with a big bank account and time to spare dreaming up elitest entertainment–give me a break–where is the pioneer spirit used by those who braved the wilds before–where are those simple folk who dare to build a simple sea worthy sea stead by intergrating a local scrap tire Up cycle incentive which will finance the the floating island project which can be developed step by step wave by wave—Two millon bucks sponsership and years of help—Mercy–maybe i will check again 5 years on
Welcome to the forum. Thank you for your post.
Yes, may be, someone has to say it. This could be one way to say it.
My native language is not English. Thinking of “-Mercy-” yours may be
French. It would be nice to read more comments on the TSI forum
written by people who live in French Polynesia.
For me, I do not want to say much without of pictures I have built.
But when I built things, why would I show picture of it here?
So, my participation is a bit self-limiting. It might be a wrong direction.
And that way it is not so radically accepting other people into the
would be community.
I would hope, you to write sooner than 5 years, and I accept the time limit
Welcome to the forum. Though your first post is to subtly insult all forum members as ignorant I will note that 99% of the images created for seasteads do not include imagery of the interconnections. My assumption (just as you assume so I could be wrong) is that interconnections will either be industry standard or something that will come when there is higher likelihood that the design will be built which will come with an engineering re-hash.
Pretty much at the idea phase you can take a circle or square or triangle picture with not much less as just a first draft representation much like if you see the first drawing of a car design it will look a lot different once the engineers and every other department of the auto company get their hands on it.
This is why a phased approach makes sense. First step is testing the structural stability and feasibility of a single structure. The interconnection with a second structure will be a big step and require a lot of time and various storm scenarios to determine the feasibility of the inter-connectivity solution. Most likely in a protected waterway first before any open seas scenario. Walk before you can fly.
And again, we are all just theorizing on this forum so there is no need to shut down ideas in the theorizing stage. It is not until the first structure is created that we will know for sure how it will fair in a storm. Until that happens, we are all just throwing out ideas. May those ideas inspire the final design of what is truly created.
I would like to see these things. Do you have pictures?
Best idea I have come up with is 3 tires with flanges and bolts holding them together. 2 large tires on the outside and smaller one in between.
Can used car tires be woven into a chain like rubber bands?
Why don’t you enlighten us, the clueless souls of seasteading who have no “idea whatsoever about floating offshore structures capable of absorbing even the most modest dynamic offshore wave action forces” about this “magic ring woven used tire technology” of yours?