Medicine on free waters

(Alexei) #1

Joe post this link on FB

’ I asked my dinner companion how he was affected by all the regulations that have been piled on the FDA and the NCI. He said: ‘Vince, if they would leave me alone, I could cure so many more patients.’

So the opportunity sounds obvious, someone must create a medical seastead on open sea and do treatments and drugs the governments and bureocrats dont approve. The world needs it.

Doctors and researchers dont even need to be there, there’s telepresence medical robots nowadays

And also… this goes a bit offtopic…but it kind of pisses me off that every business idea for seasteads has to do with fish or ocean or aquaculture. What kind of jobs i would like to have over there? Any kind of job. But i know at least on the beginning, things have to be this way.

Seasteading Invest | the big five of ocean colonization | investment yield 10%+ | oceanic business alliance
Openess of mind and codes as key ingredient for progress and prosperity | oceanic business alliance
Breakaway Civilization | Seasteading | Ocean Colonization | Advanced Oceanic Cities | Atlantis | Enlightenment | Oceanic Business Alliance | next big thing in business
(.) #2

Be the change you want to see in the world.
You can start your own medical seasteading.
No need to be pissed off.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #3

Different kinds of seasteads have been presented on the forums…proposal 9.3 fleshes the frame out… | medical seasteads and ethics |

(Chris) #4

The subject of medicine on free waters has been discussed here a few times. I think there is tremendous opportunity, but also some caution will be needed by the early pioneers.

Nations try to dictate their morality to others. For instance if you were to pursue cloning or gene splicing no matter of the nobility of the reason, expect some of your neighbors to be upset about it.

(.) #5

If I provide medical services anywhere, I cannot guarantee 100% survival.
When there is a fatality, on land or on water, there will be questions.
Better have and answers ready.

I am not so interested about these answers.
I am not interested about providing medical services for a fee on water.
It is fine with me, if others do it.

I would provide medical help, on water, to anyone for free.
But, after all you get what you pay for.

(John Frederic Kosanke) #6

Alexei, you may want to take a look at my business plan for Offshore Health Solutions. I would gladly welcome your participation.

(.) #7

Offshore health solutions.
Lots of text. Takes time to read. I am busy.

“Expectations are premeditated resentments.”


Other problem: you go and make your medical seastead. Presumably you’ll need to build it in a country. With regulations. You’ll need to list it in a country. With regulations. Your doctors will presumably have to be licensed. In a country. With regulations. And if a government doesn’t like what you are doing, they can block their citizens from going there. That is certainly a bit extreme, but still. They can refuse medicines from their country if you are off their coast, driving import costs way up for you. It will end up being a whole lot more trouble than it sounds like.

(.) #9

Well, it can be called a problem.
I have red some case studies where individuals went from Canada and US to Mexico
to receive unusual medical treatment. That treatment is legal in Mexico.
Certain medical practices are not allowed in the US. I am not so familiar with the laws
in Canada.
This particular case was about a cancer treatment of terminally ill individuals.
As the result of the illness the individuals died. The question still comes up of false hope,
and ethical treatment of individuals and quality of life during medical treatment during
final stage of life.
These individuals voluntarily participated in the treatment in Mexico, and Mexico is a sovereign
country, where medical treatment defined by the Mexican people.
The US State department can still issue a warning and a case study for the protection
of US citizens.
In the US there are lots of people who think they know it all and better than others.
Some of these individuals even practice medicine without any license. Some others have a
license. In the US anybody can believe whatever they want to, but they cannot practice
whatever they want to.
It is really difficult to take over a medical case that went bad because of unusual medical
Although there are dubious things in the US too such as knee surgeries are OK but
autologous bonemarrow stem cell transfer from hip bone to knee joint is not acceptable.
There is that infamous study about knee surgery effectiveness, where placebo had higher
recovery rate.
Medical seastead has a possibility, and the same time ethical and moral considerations are
necessary on water and on dry land too.

(.) #10

“Most of these cases involved offshore clinics to whom money was wired in advance.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has jurisdiction over cases involving wire fraud.”

(.) #11

In this controlled trial involving patients with osteoarthritis of the knee, the outcomes after
arthroscopic lavage or arthroscopic débridement were no better than those after a placebo procedure.

A Controlled Trial of Arthroscopic Surgery for Osteoarthritis of the Knee
J. Bruce Moseley, M.D., Kimberly O’Malley, Ph.D., Nancy J. Petersen, Ph.D., Terri J. Menke, Ph.D., Baruch A. Brody, Ph.D., David H. Kuykendall, Ph.D., John C. Hollingsworth, Dr.P.H., Carol M. Ashton, M.D., M.P.H., and Nelda P. Wray, M.D., M.P.H.
N Engl J Med 2002; 347:81-88July 11, 2002DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa013

(Alexei) #12

If i want to build it inside a country, i dont need a seastead.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #13

The extraterritorial status of floating entities is definitly a project asset in this case. Oceanic transhumanism is happening already.


I meant build the seastead. If you are building a medical facility in a country, there is more than likely going to be some regulations n’ such.

Also, it is worth noting that medical equipment is pretty damn expensive. It’s hard to get it without government support, and if you’re doing it specifically to avoid government regulations, I doubt you’ll get government support. Maintenance is also harder at sea due to increased difficulty in getting parts or technicians in.

(Chris) #15

This is like so many other things with a seastead as it requires foresight and tact.

I see no problem having a medical seastead that is accepted by the international community and is seastead based without sponsorship of a particular country. There are already ship based examples out there.

First you will need credibility and that will only come with self made standards above what is expected from the public at large. Your doctors will need credentials and you’ll need to insure quality care.

Second, if you start with generally accepted care and build a reputation, it will be much easier for more controversial treatments later.

Third, you’ll need to show a track record for treatments that are outside those of your neighbors. If you can show results, it is much harder for an outside entity to try to fight you on it.

As far as equipment goes, yes it is expensive, but the income opportunities are just as great. A medical seastead will need deep pockets but gives a big reward to investors. Government is not needed on this front.


Yep. I never said it was impossible, just that it was going to get complicated.

Also:[quote=“JohnGalt, post:15, topic:1381”]
I see no problem having a medical seastead that is accepted by the international community and is seastead based without sponsorship of a particular country. There are already ship based examples out there.

The thing is that a “seastead” is a more permanent and immobile structure opposed to a “ship”.
Being a large facility that can’t easily move, you would likely be in a country’s waters, making you subject to their regulations. Even ship based ones that are designed to move about have to be registered in a country, and would be subject to the regulations of their flag country.

(Jerry Dixon) #17

That is an excellent idea that could bring significant income to support a seastead. However it should be done with integrity, documenting that patients have agreed to treatment that is not approved in some countries, and that they sign away their right to recourse if the outcome is not good. Many people will be desperate enough for the possibility of extending their life, which is denied in their home country.

(system) #18

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