Marine Architects and Marine Engineers


(Larry G) #22

I just haven’t been able to find a technical discussion that says why ordinary ferrocement cannot be x-rayed. It seems like it can be, it’s just expensive. I see lots of discussion on X-ray vs ground penetrating radar (GPR) and even mobile imaging using sonar and IR, with some discussion of resolution of GPR or other imaging possibly not being fine enough to discover flaws other than voids.

I agree that geopolymer and basalt reinforcement is clearly the way to go, especially since fabric-like mesh allows for even thinner and more consistent hulls. I would plan on a fairly substantial thickness, given that it is not intended to be a racing yacht or make any great speed, rather being built for decades of low or no maintnenance rather than racing performance. Given that basalt and geopolymer cement probably have similar density and radar profile, I’m not sure how useful X-rays would be other than finding fissure, voids, etc.


#23

Expensive and inspectors don’t have it, plus X-ray dispersion at the strengths needed. This creates the same problems command nly noted as America’s Crumbling Infrastructure, with steel corrosion weakening the common ferrocement structures.

Field X-ray inspection using pipeline equipment usually involves lower levels of radiation. Not being an X-ray tech or field X-ray tech, I don’t know specifics, just what I can find online.

There are ways to reduce the likelihood of steel corrosion. One is to clean it and coat with epoxy. However, in case of impact damage and exposure, the steel is still prone to corrosion and the cement rarely bonds sufficiently to last, let alone restore strength. It will always be a weak spot and require more scrutiny.


(.) #24

It is good to have a growing number of seasteaders for those who are already in the sea.
That is talking about the future. I do not know anyone yet, who made it, and makes the
process available for others to follow. There are some starting point with that intention.
Frusha is probably one of them. I would like to start such a point.

I found the same obstacle, the need of location to start. It is a complex subject.
Waterfront properties are generally expensive. (San Diego area)
May be on facebook there is more info about the San Francisco Bay area.

San Francisco area is generally colder than the San Diego are. Sand Diego has extensive US
military presence. Interference with that will shut down anything. US Navy can, and will deal
with anything.

So, it is necessary to fly under the radar and within cooperation.
Boat building in a back yard is probably OK. Launching a home built hull is possible.
Enlarging a hull is probably also possible.


(Jake Rosoman) #25

Do you need consent to occupy ocean space in America?


(.) #26

Long live the cause. Consent of co-conspirators is needed.
200 nautical miles from shore is the so called “high seas” international waters and
out of EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone).


(Jake Rosoman) #27

I ment from the American or local government? Do they ask that people apply for consent before occupying ocean space?


(.) #28

OK, a bit of information, and you can check it in wikipedia:

1 nautical mile = 1850 meters. 1 statute mile = 1600 meters . 1 kilometer = 1000 meters.
1 nautical mile = about = 1.1 statute mile.

12 Nmile from shore is the international waters boundary. The US keep another 12 Nmiles of
contigious zone. Exclusive Economic Zone = 200 Nmiles from shore.

Beyond EEZ, 200 Nmiles absolutely no consent needed. No protection either.
The only thing could be is not to be in shipping lane and not to pose navigational hazzard.


(.) #29

Do you need consent to occupy ocean space in America?

Yes.


(.) #30

Well, terminology: if it is in USA than yes, if it is outside: no.
International waters is outside.

May I ask where you live?


(Jake Rosoman) #31

NZ. To get consent here you have to do an environmental study. Then wait for public complaints to be heard. And I’ve heard a lot of stories about projects that should get consent easily being either held up for ages or denied. It looks doable but expensive. I’m just wondering how America compares.


(.) #32

Well, the high seas are the same for USA and for NZ.
Within NZ waters they might require whatever, but outside is no jurisdiction.
I think,


#33

Depends on what you mean. I will need licenses, registration, insurance and inspections to comply with regulations to launch and operate the vessel. I will need permits for a permanent mooring, licenses for fishing, etc. If I go for aquaculture, I will need studies and permits. This is standard, with variations, around the globe. Radio operator licenses as applicable. Perhaps additional special requirements, for State waters.

Inspections for DIY vessels are about conforming to health and safety regulations that commercially produced vessels ate built to. I may require building permits, as well.

A certified plan already meets or exceeds those requirements, and an inspected hull gets certification easier than a strictly amateur designed and built one.

If I can work my way up to having an incubator site, I would expect certified plans, just to cover my potential liability, when others come build. Not my fault that someone does shoddy work, or doesn’t comply with regulations, but shouldn’t be me responsibility to ensure their compliance.

If a build changes hands before completion, it will be the new owners responsibility to ensure all previous steps were done properly.


#34

In Florida State waters, for pleasure boats, all you need is registration to operate. No license, permit or insurance to operate. No permit for mooring. Yes, license for fishing. Yes, inspection for DYI vessels (while you are building and before launching) by the Coast Guard. No building permit required.

Yes, aquaculture (in Florida State waters) needs studies and permits. A pain in the neck,…Can take years to be approved. Forgetaboutit,…

For commercial operations, more bureaucracy.


#35

@spark - are you in SD?


(Bob LLewellyn) #36

Out to roughly 27 miles, you are in the country that you are next to and must obey there laws. Move beyond that and you are out of their country but they claim mineral rights out to 220 miles. You can float with no direct problems, the laws are the laws of the country that your flag is from. No mining or drilling but you can anchor and fish on the bottom. This would have to include fish farms. Building on land isn’t necessary or even a good idea because of all the regulations.

Consider this for $900,000 you can buy this 110 Ft long barge, live inside and build on the deck.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2012/Steel-Deck-Barge--2439562/Freeport-Harbor/Bahamas#.WSXNANy1vX4

110 X 12 = 1200 SqF Buy the first then build replicas on the back of the first one. Easy to work on, easy to launch and no government, sounds like paradise to me.


(.) #37

Mostly correct.
https://www.isa.org.jm INTERNATIONAL SEABED AUTHORITY
ISA wants to extend even to anchoring, and anything that touches the bottom,
but they do not have much enforcing capabilities, nor detecting capabilities.
And the USA is not sign to it, at least just yet.

Though you can do whatever in the water column.
Neighbors will always effect neighbors.

12 Nm is territorial waters, another 12 is contiguous zone, 200 is EEZ.
According wikipedia. Some countries try to extend EEZ to continental shelf, more than 200.

I do not have $900K and I do not think I can raise it

Building replicas on the back of the first one, is a good idea.


(Larry G) #38

But at least $900k is not a completely unreasonable amount of money for a startup business to raise without a venture capitalist. It can be achieved through loans, through liquidation of personal assets and pooling of resources of a small number of individual business partners, or a slightly larger pool of people in a cooperative model.

And that’s for a capital asset which retains most of its value for a number of years.


(.) #39

I mostly agree, and twenty more characters.


(Jake Rosoman) #40

Yea well ~300k was spent of the TSI conference in Tahiti so it might be kickstarterable. And I think 900k is more than necessary to get to profitability.


#41

Regardless of who wants to build what, a certified, reputable marine architect and marine engineer can be of significant help to the forum.