Making Kilowatt-hours On A Seastead

(bill mapezzi) #21

well, like If you can fill up a plastic tub of goo, cover it, and have methane at a few psi, and an on/off valve then your done/set to go?

(.) #22

Meanwhile, earlier in my life, I was interested about heat engines. I am still interested about
heat engines. I might have posted before the so called ‘temperature gravity wheel’
some call it in short form ‘Minto wheel’. I did build a working sub scale prototype of the wheel.

I still have some youtube videos of it and pictures of it. The so called ‘working liquid’ is
methanol. I strongly think the methanol is not so advantageous. I think, it is possible to
build a temperature gravity wheel with a working solution of sodium bicarbonate water solution,
with carbon dioxide as the gaseous phase.

The temperature gravity wheel needs very small temperature difference to operate.
And the machinery is an ultra low maintenance type.

(bill mapezzi) #23

my hot dog didn’t seem to care all that much. efficiency can drop and still be practical. How about chrome plated ceramic? I got tons of weird(nano slurry) magnesium clay near my house.

(.) #24

The other type of working heat engine, I have built, is based on the principle of thermal transpiration;
such as the Crook’s radiometer:

I still have the vacuum pump to produce the necessary vacuum, and I still have the vacuum desiccator.


Rather simplistic, but correct, for what it’s worth.

It still requires inoculation and the method of operation makes some differences. I’ve been studying them since the '70s and am trying to start a business. In the process of developing one for patenting, now.

(.) #26

Sounds good. And good to go.

(bill mapezzi) #27

I ALMOST did myself in with methanol. I was using it as a lighter fluid to jumpstart a big used vegetable oil burner…Had it in a 1000ml glass jar set on the ground. As the lip had flamed up a couple times before and never exploded I thought i was fine. One time (its hard to notice) it must have been lit without me noticing because my sweater had caught fire. I was so hot and surprised all of a sudden I didn’t know what was happening right away. It seemed to be just on my sleeve, but my friend said it was all over the back of sweater also. I couldn’t take if off quick enough so I had to roll around in the dirt. Lucky just blistered my arm and didn’t have long hair at the time.

(Craig G. Lewis) #28

Yes they are costly and will require maintenance. The once we had in the navy, where very reliable. The power requirement and size of unit required, will tell the cost.

So an Island of 1000 homes/units need 1Mw and say 1Mw for the Island requirements

So 4 500kw microturbines

Yes this is all depended on the amount of gas that can be created through electrolysis. And with the other sources of power generation, the burning off a gas can be capture and sold as a revenue generator for the island.

Piston engine would work also. More moving parts, ??

The gas could also be used as a heat source or for cook gas, etc.

(Chad Elwartowski) #29

In addition to solar a small wind turbine is good for redundancy. Certainly both are of no use on a calm night, but it adds more times you’re generating electricity.

(.) #30

Have to be careful with methanol, because it is flammable.
And methanol burns with almost no visible flames.

Building a large device with the working liquid as methanol, the device
becomes a methanol storage by legal definition, and requires permits too.

Water solution of baking soda is not explosive, not flammable and not poisonous.
Same thing with the carbon dioxide, not flammable, not poisonous, not explosive.
Large device can be built, and the working liquid and gas does not leave the device,
just recycle within a closed system. Breathing CO2 only is deadly, but in an open,
well ventilated area with lots of O2 available to breath, CO2 will not poison a person
as ammonia or CO would.

There was some discussion of highly technical type of the working liquids, and the
term ‘binary liquid’ was coined. A binary liquid is a theoretical, ideal liquid.
In my opinion, the transition of CO2 from gas to liquid is an approximation
of a working binary liquid, but it requires more complicated equipment to withstand
1000 psi pressures.

The CO2 transition from gas to liquid would still work at very low temperatures, -78 deg C.
Theoretically makes energy available at very low
temperature, such as arctic conditions, where seawater temperature is about -3 deg C and
surface temperatures can be -40 deg C. (I would like to stay on warm climate.)

It is controversial, and lots of discussion can be done about it. And in small amounts,
even diet coke can be used as a working liquid, and the carbonation would be the working
gas. I did build a small device with diet coke in it, and it worked.
The efficiencies and practicality of the device is a different question, and those would
have to be developed. It is a benign hobby. Coke bottles, PVC pipes and diet coke.
When all goes bad, I just drink the diet coke. I like low calorie liquids to drink.

And this would be a future development, just like 3D printing with sea water with solar electricity.
For the start PV solar panels are good enough.

I am focusing on the immediate things, tires, ringweaving, and sailing.

(bill mapezzi) #31

Then of coarse there is the scaled down model of this which knocks the upfront materials cost down to 10 - 20cents/watt of power. You get the whole surface area of the wing generating lift at wing tip speed and no tower, just a transmission line.image Has to be manned 24/7 to generate power. but just that one tethered kite alone makes 600 Kw. that’s $90/hour in 15 knots of wind and more like $60/hr in 10 knots wind not $40 like one would expect (100/225) because the computer actually depowers the kite when it reaches near structural limit speed.(100+ knots). I’m sure one could fly a smaller model without the 1/2 million dollar “tech package” or whatever their lastest lower offer is


(bill mapezzi) #33

yeah I think that was their 30Kilowatt early version that google bought out…Still not into production, but at sea maybe a different story because of the “captive” consumer.


The smaller 10kW design might be more practical for individual Seasteads…

(noboxes) #35

Someone is playing with the numbers, and not in a good way. They have 8 motor-generators on that bird, “rated” at 600kw, that’s 75kw per genny and propellor. And that is 100hp per genny. Does that propellor arrangement look like to anyone like it can make 120hp into the genny? Furthermore, i am looking at two ads for a 75kw ac gennies now, they both weigh ~730 lbs each, does that look like it can hold 5840 lb of genny (plus itself and equipment) aloft? Here’s a high freq Chinese dc generator rated 75kw, it’s 100 lbs, so the wing must fly 800 lbs plus 8 gearboxes. I cry foul on those claims.


@ 26 meters wingspan, the thing is roughly as large as a 50 seat Bombadier Challenger 850 business jet.

Jeff Frusha

(noboxes) #37

But lift is proportional to speed, and the jet cannot fly as slowly as this thing is expected to fly (15kt = 17mph). This thing is grounded well before the jet gets it’s wheels off the tarmac. This is like comparing a U2 landing dead stick with a SR-71 hauling ass.

(.) #38

I like it, and 600 KW is a lot.

(bill mapezzi) #39

I would think it is “plausible” sales talk. Like "thats what the meter read when Joe tweeked the overide setting and had act quick to pull it out of a 200mph dive…’ or something like that. They haven’t put any new info on the net that ive seen for 2 or 3 years. A warp HYPER -9 electric car motor makes 80KW. at 3000 rpm, says it weighs 120 lbs. And also it is not a continuous 600Kw rating. I guess I forgot to account for that in the kite flying wage estimate. It MIGHT produce only 25% of that over 24 hours. Since the apparent wind is whats available for the generators to suck up its better to sail it to “weather” and then coast back downwind, Probably flies a figure 8 and doesn’t produce squat climbing out of the loop. They don’t say much, the videos are techno babble. But I still think its practical to build a scale of it and pay someone 2 dollars an hour to deliver your electricity free if you can eatup enough of it.

(bill mapezzi) #40

There was a different semi-rigid kite that might be easier to DIY “auto pilot” and then just leave it alone. It only needed a sensor to tell when it got to the “end of its leash”, and another one to tell when to stop pulling the kite in and let it out again. The kite was a dihedral V biplane or triplane. and just climbed and “dragged” the ground base generator at a high angle of attack setting, then the motor/generator pulled it back down/in with the wings set at slight negative angle of attack. It wasn’t as efficient as a big windmill but it looked cheap to make big, Just fabric and a few spars and a leash, No wires in the air just simple RC to adjust the tether on the kite to “depower” it. It would probably be fun to go fetch it out of the water the first few times it didn’t behave.