Little money, lots of time version of seasteading


(.) #21

And anyways, a speed boat might come handy at the seastead.
This also means that the seastead needs to house or dock for a speed boat.

During adverse weather conditions when the seastead might need to hide under the
waves, the speed boat needs to be somewhere. Could be water tight on the suface
with a kevlar rope or a chain tied to the seastead. Or there could be a dry storage
that goes under water, like a diving bell.

This might be a consideration in the design of the seatead: protection from the elements,
protection from other humans, and how to put all that together. Not to mention
functionality of the seastead.

I am not thinking about a big unit. I am thinking of building a small unit, and may be
to help others to build similar smaller units. Whoever might want such a thing.


(.) #22

There is a few more defense systems that ckuld be built into a seastead.
One is cameras with transmission possibilities, and publishing possibilities.
If a seastead gets attacked, it can be recorded on video, and the video can be
disseminated to makemit possible to anyone to see it. Social medias, youtube… etc.

Final resort could be running from the seastead after initiating a selfdestruct
sequence. This could be usefull when the seastead takes little money to build.
When the human beings are the biggest value of a seastead, and humans cannot
be captured or held captives, that would deter agression.

I would set a seastead up the way that there is very little to gain but a lot to loose
for an agressor.


(.) #23

The difficulties with a growing platform is that it probably cannot be slipformed.
The slip casting form would have to boe constantly changed.
A cast that would be modular could be the best.


(.) #24

The difficulties with little money lots of time kind of seasteading is
when it gets figured out, there will be no excuse why no to do it.
Sitting at the computer and typing will contradict seasteading.


#25

The “little money” part of this is working against concrete, slipformed, 3D printed, or hand poured. Concrete as a seastead base has two issues: 1) with current practice it is sure to be right in the wave zone as it’s being poured, and 2) you cannot have the concrete move for at least a week after pouring it. So be prepared to not pour in open waters. Pouring in closed waters will cost you, either in interference, or in needing to buy/rent the land on which to pour.


#26

Kat I’m with you here but for different reasons.

Concrete basically is twice as heavy as water; 145 lbs per cubic foot vs 64 lbs per cubic foot. So the proportion of walls to buoyant areas needs to be at least 3-1.

A better material would be lighter than water, so that it naturally floats.

A better material would have precursors that are smaller than the finished material. So you don’t have to ship 1 cubic foot of material to get 1 cubic foot of wall.

Both of these suggest some sort of expanding or air-filled material. I’m a big fan of Expanded Polystyrene Foam (EPS), marine expanding foam used in boat building, resin and fiberglass coatings, and finally Vinyl Ester as a bonding agent.


#27

Steel is 490 lbs per cubic foot, much heaver than concrete, but steel makes a much better boat simply because it has tensile strength. You compare any 1/4 inch plate of cement to a 1/4 inch thick plate of steel, see which you can destroy with a hammer first. Or 1/8 plates, it would be like hitting a common cheap dinner plate vs your truck bumper.

But yes, except for the fish eating the foam, or it being illegal to be in contact with the water directly, or being flammable, or it’s UV degradation, foam has some advantages. I wanted to use a lot of it in my small aluminum pontoons, but i cannot find the white foam blocks any more, and the only place i know that does pours/sprays won’t return my calls or emails. It’s pricey stuff on Ebay. I think octavian was going to stucco over foam.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #28

consider the structure is as light as you build it has little to do with the material more with its distribution…


(.) #29

I favor synthetic foams too. The idea of transproting small size to construction sit
and expading it there is a good one, in my opinion.
Concrete resists ultra violet light, synthetic material may be more subject to
deterioration because if sunlight.

For safety reason it is good to have something float on the surface after a crash.

I think concrete and synthetic foam can be conbined. It is used a lot in land construction.

Epoxy fiberglass might be a good choice too.

It would be good to be able to stop construction and restart it and continue.
And it would be good when the new construction would not separate from the old one.

I am also interested in seacrete. For seacrete the raw material is right there, or at least
most of it is right there. And the acretion can be stopped and restarted.


(.) #30

I tried to cover styrofoam boxes with chickenwire and concrete.
It worked. I did not try the bouyancy. Yet.


(Chad Elwartowski) #31

Nice, I tried using chickenwire (hardware cloth) when doing my spheres and it was way too difficult to try to turn into a sphere. A box makes sense.

It should turn out to be very bouyant.


#32

I would like to know the method used to achived failure. And you do know chicken wire and hardware cloth are not the same thing, right? Either way, people have built hemispheres and spheres using rebar, and using string, using paper mache and using concrete. As both chicken wire and hardware cloth (which i find to be too pricey anyhow) is between string and rebar, i’d like to know how these materials failed for you.


(Chad Elwartowski) #33

I’m not saying it can’t work, I just found it too difficult during my experiments

When I tried to make ferrocement spheres I was using toy balls you get at Walmart for $2, covering them with cement. I had some hardware cloth which comes in squares. I tried several ways of getting the square cloth around a toy ball. With the sharp edges and difficulty of turning a flat square to a round sphere ended in balls being popped by the sharp edges.

So I tried it with drywall tape. It held shape for a few months but eventually they cracked and fell apart.

Here is the thread for reference:
http://www.seasteading.org/forum-list/topic/ferrocement-sphere/

Admittedly I was not patient enough to make each sphere as thick as this first one so most were already on the thin/brittle side after they first dried.


#34

Ah, i see the problems then. That’s a rather small ball, the curvature issues get bad fast, they are less of a problem with larger sizes. You need to fold the pointy ends back on the fabric, and then when you apply, make sure the natural tendency is for the points to be outward pointing. For small diameters like you picture, make a solidly built concave surface, then you can lay the mesh over that, and use a rubber mallet, or the end of a 2x2 lumber, to deform the mesh to that curve before applying to the ball. This is how one did plate maille before applying it to the knight who wore it. Secure the edges of each wire patch as you go, you can use the smallest electric fence or picture hanging wire (both are steel).


(.) #35

Hi there Elwar. Keep up the good work.


(Chad Elwartowski) #36

I stopped working on the spheres about 3 years ago.

But a growing island of floating concrete is probably the best way to go for a little money, lots of time version.


(.) #37

More about seasteading.


(.) #38

Anyways, sometimes I do not understand my computer.

The way I understand seasteading, is, that it would be a new way.
So, if investors and investment and rent, and projected gain is
so important, than that already exsists.
That way of life can be brought out to sea too.

I am just not a big fan of stateism, investment banking, profits,
and othet term in the conventional meaning.


(.) #39

I wrote a few posts in the accretion biorock topic, but may be it would be better for me
to write here, since I started this topic.

So, my idea would be a small company to produce building materials by
accreting things from seawater.

One of these things could be tiles. The other one could be countertops.

There could be different methods too, for example to produce magnesium hydroxide,
and compress it in molds and then place them in carbon dioxide athomsphere to
convert to harder material.

The idea of building materials is they do not spoil, like agricultural product.
These could be storaged untill optimal market time. Storage can be on barges to
avoid storage fees.

Probably people do not think about it, but all the limestone mountains are the left over
of seashell accretion, and those mountaing are probably billions of tons.
There is a lot of magnesium and calcium in the oceans. Probably marble is formed
by similar process.


(Chad Elwartowski) #40

Counter tops might be the next big thing in kitchen design. It would be rare initially so only the cool folks would have them which would create demand from others. Their density would be good for not getting scuffed up and such.

I would say you could custom grow for some people but that would take years which someone would not be willing to wait just to have counter tops.