List of Current Seasteading Projects


#164

So, floating cesspool… Don’t want to be anywhere I have to smell it, or, should there be a storm, down current from it, either…

Burn it? Men and women coming back from serving in the middle East have major respiratory problems from exposure to smoke from burning sewage…

Beginning to see why I have a problem with what others do with their sewage?


(Larry G) #165

Not so much from burning sewage (speaking as one of those people). Burning tires, buildings, plastic trash, etc… that caused my respiratory issues. The diesel co-fired to make not-dry human waste burn was not good either, but that’s not the fault of the biologicals. Burning feces is no worse than burning wood from a health perspective.

Combustion is a safe method, if it is controlled and forced air is used to burn hot, clean and complete.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #166

JL_F ---- I share your expressed frustration. This is hard. We are in this together. I do not know the answer to all the issues you raise. I am trying. I have from my narrow knowledge base the answers to some of the issues. 1.) Water: – A catchment system, storage and filtering can manage this. Back this up with desalinization. 2.) Sewage: — Waste can be solved with “package” treatment plants. 3.) Energy: — solar + wind turbines (in the future thermal and water movement). Bulk waste — I do not know! I read burn for energy. Help! —There is more as yo know. 4.) Food: — hydroponic faming is more productive in small area; 5.) vertical water farming for shell fish and greens — visit YaleE360. 6.) I am more limited in design for storms — but I am seeking aid from others. Obviously seek sheltered locations — I am trying my best to provide the seasteading community with intelligent design.

Confronted with time limits ---- I am thinking to detach from this forum — but your intensity keeps me here. Do not loose hope. Ted


(Bob LLewellyn) #167

[quote=“JL_Frusha, post:164, topic:2107”]
Beginning to see why I have a problem with what others do with their sewage?[/quote]
Yes I do. People are always afraid of things that they don’t understand. I worked and went to school for the subject and you haven’t yet had that opportunity.
The methane that comes off of the drying septic is combustible. When you go past a waste treatment plant look for a tall chimney with a flame on top of it. There is no smell and it will be quite a distance from the population anyway.
I always say, ‘the more you know, the more you grow’. I am happy to help you out if you still have problems with how it all works.


#168

So, burning and destroying nutrients is growing what? When you dump the ash and alter the pH of the water, killing the sea life that makes it attractive now, just move on and poison more of the ocean…

I see all too clearly.


#169

Part of my goal is to make people think, not just ‘do’… HOW do we solve the problems without creating worse problems? CAN we do it in such a way as to minimize the impact on the planet? If we kill off whole zones of the ocean, creating more hypoxic dead zones like the one in the Gulf of Mexico, which is mainly due to sewage and fertilizer runoff creating an artificial Oxygen demand, then we’re killing the planet, not solving anything.


(.) #170

I would autoclave all outgoing water using solar electricity for heating it.
Releasing only dead things, leaves the local flora with no competition.


#171

Still puts fertilization into the water, creating a Chemical Oxygen Demand, feeding microflora, creating Biological Oxygen Demand. Dumping isn’t a very good solution.

Cannot recall the organisms, or the toxins, but various toxins remain deadly long after things like Red Tide have died off.

The easy solutions aren’t sustainable. That’s part of my point, but, in order to deal with it, there also has to be space TO handle wastes.


(.) #172

If you do not like it , you can hold it.


#173

Not picking a fight. Perhaps belaboring what should be obvious, but receives little or no attention.

My point isn’t just treatment, but using, rather than dumping, or burning nutrients that are available. It costs in infrastructure, upfront, but by not wasting the sewage, and turning it back into food, through aeroponics, hydroponics and aquaponics, it eliminates toxifying the environment and cuts costs on food, rather than paying to haul it off and have it treated, risk it being dumped into either sensitive environments, or wiping out a serious IMTA, or caged fish operation, costing potentially millions of dollars damages and liability.

Treat it, reutilize it to grow food. Cut outbound freight expenses, inbound freight expenses, remove a dangerous source of pollution in the process.


#174

Yes. We’ll be handling sewage on a separate tanker. We will adopt a multi stage approach.

  1. Separating things that can and can’t be put into the sewage systems. Tampons and diapers among others will be a pain to handle. So we will educate people by telling them they shouldn’t flush their tampons down the toilet or throwing trash into their kitchen sink. This has already been done in Japan and is a great success.
  2. Keeping the sewage inside a separate tank in a chamber underground, similar to septic tank, but much bigger because it should be able to handle the sewage production of 10,000 people for a week.
  3. At first, sewage will be dealt with on Risenia because we will only have like 100 people. Once it reaches 1000 population, we’ll be using a specialized tanker to suck out the sewage and process it on the tanker.
  4. At the tanker, sewage will be separated into organic and non-organic. Organic will undergo further processing, non-organic will be sterilized and sent elsewhere.
  5. Organic waste will be boiled to 130 degrees and further sorted into fertilizer material, deep sea trash and unusable materials.
  6. Fertilizer materials will be mixed with other stuff like urea, fish fertilizer and cow dung (when we have any). Deep sea trash will be dumped into the ocean after boiled to kill all the bacteria and parasites. Unusable materials are potentially polluting materials which includes tiny plastic fragments not caught by earlier sorting, rubber fragments, metals and chunks of organic material not suitable for fertilizer or dumping will be sterilized and kept in storage.
  7. Once we have enough unusable materials stored, we’ll put them into a plasma gassifier to turn them into synth gas, which we will sell since won’t be using it much ourselves. We only plan to use green power plants. This will only be done sparingly as it’s an expensive process and the amount we will put into a plasma gassification plant is tiny. Even with 10,000 population, with proper sewage management, we’d likely end up with only a tonne of unusable materials after a few weeks. Totally not worth the effort.

Yes, I know, it’s sounds way complicated and large scale. But we’re not making a small seastead, we’re making a city capable of fitting in 10,000 people or more. So we have to take our project focus into account when designing sewage system.

As a side note, rainwater will be channeled into a man made lake to function as spare fresh water to complement the filtered water kept underground, so it doesn’t go the same way as sewage, which drastically cuts down on the size of the sewage tank required.


#175

I have friends in Asia, India and Africa working on biogas and syngas. Some units are portable enough to run generators and mopeds on.

A central greenhouse dome, like I have linked to in a sister topic could handle it onsite, with plastics obviously taken elsewhere for cooking into syngas.


#176

The basics of plasma gassification system


(.) #177

Well, OK. Without word games.
After sterilization the sludge could be used for many things.
Now again, lots of word games come up in my mind.
I work in health care. These issues are more openly expressed in health
care professional environment. Some people cannot handle it, so I
do not know if I can reasonably write about it here.
So, there is a governmental organization in the United States, called the
CDC. Center of Disease Control. It is a very serious function of a
government to protect the citizens.

So a guideline of the US CDC is the number one most effective way
to prevent infectious epidemics is : a flush toilet.
Number two is washing hands with soap.

There are esthetic’s in architecture, and there is probably esthetic’s about
bathrooms too. There is probably some practical experience data of
how many and what kind of bathrooms are the most optimal.


(.) #178

What I mean about, some people cannot handle it, would become
very clear after looking at a parasitology pictorial atlas.


#179

As for food, we do plan on growing it outselves. At start, we will be using the single vertical farm (more like ‘angled farm’) we have to grow enough food for 100 people, supplemented by catch from the sea. Imports will be necessary until we can get our first produce. Then when the population increase and that single farm is no longer capable of sustaining our population, we’ll get a separate tanker, converting it into hydroponics farm. So the city itself can be used for aesthetics.

In the future, if the project succeeds, we’ll have a second district where we raise livestock like goats and cows. Now, I know people will say you can’t raise cows at sea. That’s true, but we’re not raising them on a ship or enclosed containers. We’re raising them on the second district, and a district is huge. A single district is double the size of Monaco, with the designer wanting to build bigger. I had to stop him from his delusions because if we build bigger, we won’t ever see it float in our entire lifetimes. The cow will feel like it’s living on an island, and there’s no problem raising cows on an island.

Additionally, we can also build fish farms in the future, but this is up for discussion still. We will decide if we need it when Risenia is finally floating. We won’t be needing it when we start.

Theoretically, our system should allow us to scale it to support our population, making ‘just enough’ for a middle income lifestyle at every step of the way. If anyone wants more, we can import food from somewhere. We will aim to grow or fish enough to provide citizens with the recommended daily nutrient intake on an average day.

Just think of Risenia as something like USS Voyager from Star Trek. There is space limitation, but because it’s big and our population is small, we still have a lot of space to grow. However, once all that space is used up, we’d need to get additional ships to sustain our livelihood.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #180

Bob: – I agree with gathering water, energy and sanitation. I do not know the solution to “bulk waste.” I will start to research. If you have thoughts please share. I am working to have a “positive” impact. Aquaculture and hydroponics are proved viable businesses. I am including in the program and employment mix for the prototype. I encourage Marinea to test including. As others know Cay Sal is in the center of overfishing - poaching. In the prototype, I conceptually include the equivalent of a US Coast Guard Cutter to use the sea stead as a port-of-call. Bahamas and the Cay Sal Bank can benefit by the Prsence of Marinea. Ted


(Matias Volco) #181

@tamenta Ted, a Cutter has more draft than Cay Sal is deep. You should have joined us in a skype meeting during the early days of Marinea - it would have been very useful to count with your experience in Hospitality RE development in the Caribbean Thoughts @ForexBob ?
@ellmer ?


@Shiina_Ai AI et al
There are almost two million people at sea at any given day. That is 50 times the population of Monaco. I propose the challenges of developing Floating Cities are other than the challenges already solved by the fleet of 80,000 ships currently at sea in this second.


(Bob LLewellyn) #184

[quote=“Matias, post:181, topic:2107”]
a Cutter has more draft than Cay Sal is deep.[/quote]
Only by the islands Mati. The depth of the Sal bank is from 0 (by the islands) to 90 ft deep. The aircraft carrier Coral Sea had a draft of 38 ft. and she could go into parts of the Sal banks.
Bob (The Marinea Project)


(Matias Volco) #185

Civilized life at sea has been possible for about a century.

-The World’s fleet gets bigger
-Cruise ship industry keeps growing as a fully mainstream manufactured and mobile destination

-Millions of people are working at sea everyday
-500,000 passengers are spending today at sea without any training whatsoever and with full expectation of comfort.


What comes next?