List of Current Seasteading Projects


(Bob LLewellyn) #35

The three projects mentioned are three different concepts. TSI’s South Sea project is to work with an existing country to build designer barges that have a look and feel of a floating island. Pretty expensive but the silicon valley folks are used to big projects and lots of money. Their project is geared more toward the wealthy.

If I understand Frusha, his project is more in line with a floating oil derrick. It is already tried and proven technology. It will be more expensive than just living on a boat but since JL is on here he can say better who he had in mind as users of his project, how many, and such.

I can speak for the Marinea Project. Its design is to start small and grow using existing technology. Designed after an early western town, the Village will start with a general store, hotel, restaurant, post office, saloon, instead of a livery stable we will have a fueling and fresh water station. We have all of that on an ocean going barge. We have one in mind that is already set up. Citizens of this here village will live in their own homes as they should. The early residents will be using live-aboard-boats. After we see how things work out, we will be selling floating homes that can handle ocean environments.

Phase two will be to build a town square and connected residential areas with the ability to grow. Marinea has four main criteria that it needs to follow. The project must be expandable, it needs to the right size no matter what the population grows to. Secondly it must be self sustaining, meaning it must produce as much or more than it uses. Third it must be replicate-able. As a pilot project it wouldn’t do anyone any good if we made something wonderful that could not be replicated. And forth, it has to be sustainable, we need to start living in harmony with nature.

Marinea is membership driven. The members intend to build a floating independent country with a Libertarian government. There is very little structure as the concept is to plant the seed and see what develops by natural growth. This type of development is for everyone, even those of limited means. People will be adding 40% more people to this planet in the next 30+ years. Someone has to learn how to make ocean colonization a reality, and if we are first then we will make $$$ and a way for all those that come after us. The early bird catches the worm.

In the words of Hans Solo, “Look, I ain’t in this for your revolution, and I’m not in it for you, princess. I expect to be well paid. I’m in it for the money.”


(Bob LLewellyn) #36

I should have also added how we intend to grow our membership, we have given the job of creating the government to the Libertarian party and libertarians in general. It will be the first libertarian country in the world. I’m counting on the millions of libertarians out there to become members of our coalition to create a true libertarian state. It’s $100 to become a member and if we pull this off, a citizen of the free state of Marinea. We are sort of pre-selling citizenship.

That’s it, that’s the whole plan in a nut shell. It’s simple, not much to go wrong but it is heavily dependent upon us to support the work. Of course there is a way for everyone to profit from what we are building but because of SEC rules, you have to be members of a club or have over $500K to invest. I don’t make the rules, but as long as I am stuck here in the states, I will obey their directives.


#37

@ForexBob

Actually, I’m figuring on the supply side, first. Then start building a small scale semi-submersible based on the Little SSLV. intention is to be able to supply farm fresh produce, for early efforts in the GoMex, as well as space for other builders to make and haul transportable Seasteads/Gulfsteads to the GoMex. In addition, I’d like to find land with water access to the GoMex, as a build and launch facility, along with scale testing, prior to actually building livable structures, whether they are my concepts, or not… Something many tried to encourage TSI to invest in, when they asked what to do with the last bog Thiel donation.

Model, test, build, launch and supply/resupply all in one, or two places.

Eventually, I want to build designs to the specs of the Ramform patents, as well.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #38

Market Feasibility — “If you build it, will they come?” — or are seasteads a “Field of Dreams.” Investors and lenders to large projects require an analysis of market and financial feasibility. I can find no such market feasibility for seasteads ---- after nearly 10-years. Why? This thread identifies three seasteads in pre-development, to be located in Polynesia, the Gulf and Bahamas. Bob correctly points out there are differences among these. These differences are largely in physical and projected cost. Marinea anticipates $15 million to implement and Blue Horizons (TSI) anticipates $30 million for essentially the same program. 30 plus residents with supporting uses. The Gulf project is smaller but there are sufficient similarities to compare the market feasibility of each. I will do this shortly probably on a new thread as it will be a lengthy exercise. Ted


#39

Seasteading market feasibility depends on location. For example, what’s feasible for the Bora Bora location might not be feasible for a Gulf of Mexico or a Cay Sal location.

Therefore, feasibility can’t be generalized or compared. It will be specific for each project.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #40

Octavian: ---- of course — You are 100% correct. “Location, location,location.” I am very happy your responded, in fact delighted. Market feasibility can not be generalized — but it can be site specific and compared to other specific sites. I can and will do the market feasibility of a sea stead in both Polynesia and Bahamas. You may be surprised at the results. When I have done you will be able to do the work yourself for any other project you might contemplate. I have been doing market analysis for 50-years as a consultant for hotels, reposts, residential, amusement parks and office building. The result is 4.5 million square feet of built work. Please visit www.amentaco.com for a view of a bit of this. I will shortly start with a “gravity model” for each sea stead location. I will not explain here — too lengthy but you can read online. This method was first codified by Stamford Research — was first applied to Disney World in Orlando. When we have completed this exercise I will then undertake a market segmentation based on age, income, education, sex et al. I have already done the gravity model, so I know the result — It may surprise you. Ted


A new Hope, Marinea resurrected?
(Theodore M. Amenta) #41

Octavian – I have decided to start the Market Feasibility here. I will switch to the Landlubber’s Guide to Seasteading Feasibility shortly. Let me start by defining some common terms in market feasibility: trade area, sphere of influence, primary market — Imagine a circle around your local cinema complex of about 30-minutes drive time. This is the trade area. This circle will bump up against another cinema circle possibly 60-minutes drive time away. So the cinema supply is comprised of drive time circles with a 30-minute radius. Of course in the real world these circles bump and distort into amoeba shapes — but this can be plotted on a map. A point of information — 30-minutes drive time for a 90-minute experience. This is an approximation of course. IN Iowa it might be a 45-minute drive and in New Jersey a 20-minute drive. This is just the first step — Now it gets to be more fun. Now assume you live exactly 30-minutes form a Regal Cinema to the east and an identical Regal Cinema 30-minutes to the west — ticket price and popcorn price is identical. Where do you go to the cinema to see “Seasteading the Movie.” Probability theory suggests you go to each 50% of the time. That was easy — but now the fun begins and we will shortly apply this to locating seasteads. Assume you are 10-minutes to “Seasteading the Movie” 10-minutes to the west an 50-minutes to the east. Probability theory suggest you will visit the cinema to the west 80% of the time and to the easy 20% of the time. We are now analyzing the market feasibility. I will shortly apply this to Polynesia versus Bahamas — It may surpass you. Ted


(Theodore M. Amenta) #43

i am not yet certain of the communication protocol. I am writing to ForexBob but also directed to JL_Frusha — So here goes: Bob has identified and formulate a feasible project — Marinea. I do not agree with all of his thoughts – but in principal and can “prove” — remember math — His Marinea concept is feasible and thus will be implemented. I myself am trying to enable this — JL — has possibly the most vision of us all. I might help on the demand side. ted


(Matias Volco) #44

It’s a good question, What is already out there that meets the criteria of a small seastead or a floating city? What is the starting point to improve on?


#45

Elmer’s submarines… One on the bottom of Lake Attersee, the other abandoned before completion… Great examples…


(Larry G) #46

One cannot expect an unattended vessel to stay floating forever, especially when tampered with.


(Larry G) #47

Great, Matias. So where are the current seastead projects starting from those things you pictured, and how do they get to seasteading from where they are now, especially when most of the “now” people, processes, and technology have zero intentional interest in seasteading, only caring about ocean operations in terms of making sea occupations pay for land lifestyles?


#48

The one in Lake Attersee has other obvious issues, not just the damaged seal, which should have been better engineered, to protect the seal.

The sail was added well after initial launch and has separated, and there is spalling, which, in that cold water, should not exist, short of an impact.

The abandoned project shows the same lack of an integral sail, as well.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #49

deleted to accomodate new forum politics | @thebastidge

All postings beyond 27.june withdrawn …


(Larry G) #50

None of which links you’ve posted lead to an active, in-progress, verifiable project to create structures at sea intended to provide permanent living space to individuals and families and communities as a primary function of the structure, rather than simply providing transportation across the water or workspace for a business function which is related to transporting things across the water.

That’s not colonization. McMurdo Station is not an effort to colonize Antarctica. A space station which only has short and long term worker rotation and no families would not be space colonization, either. Ocean colonization means people moving to and living permanently on/in/or under the ocean.

Dude. It’s a thin premise that you’re “tired” of explaining something over and over again, when you have never actually addressed it in the first place. (As in where are “current seastead projects starting from those things [Matias] pictured, and how do they get to seasteading from where they are now, especially when most of the “now” people, processes, and technology have zero intentional interest in seasteading, only caring about ocean operations in terms of making sea occupations pay for land lifestyles?”)

Links are for adding information to a conversation, not taking the place of being constructive. Nobody who is a regular in the forum needs a link to your site. They’ve been spammed with them interminably. People who are new to the forum are turned off by seeing them everywhere. Especially when it all turns out to be chatter about seasteading and not examples of seasteading.

Posting the same links over and over ( and now as “search terms”) doesn’t make any point, doesn’t convince anyone, and ruins your credibility as a person who could contribute.

Let me be clear- I’m not saying that those technologies can’t or don’t contribute to the discussion of what kind of engineering is possible and currently in use. But as @tamenta has pointed out over and over- where is the feasibility study, and what is the justification for actually building it? What is the plan to get from an engineering possibility, to a practical, built, lifestyle environment on the ocean.

The Marinea guys have a plan, whether it works or not, they have some semblance of a plan.


#51

Then a moderator should delete those comments and spare the rest of us the grief of reading Elmo’s non-stop spam.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #52

deleted to accomodate the new forum administrator | @thebastidge |

and | @JL_Frusha | @BobDohse |

All postings beyond 27.june withdrawn …


#53

It was also noted that the primary results either link directly to your websites or back here, to this forum, then looping back to your websites, via the spam links, here.


(Larry G) #55

However, he did something unusual, and gained some kind of knowledge and experience through doing it. I still admire the effort. As you point out yourself, there is benefit in doing, even if it’s not perfect, even if you ultimately fail, even if other people have done something similar. Don’t let distaste for forum tactics overshadow actual accomplishment.

Let’s try to move back towards civility in the forum. Some forgiveness and mutual space when reasonable accommodation can be given.


#56

Understood. I tried civility, until the constant aggression against documentation and honesty in posts finally pushed my last button.

I will ‘reset’, when they do. Matias is still being aggressive, even in PMs.

I tried to give credit where due, for the initial success, even lamented the unnecessary damage and demise of the 1st one, and would bet that the war on drugs caused, in part, the demise of the 2nd ferrocement submarine.

I have tried calling for a truce, to no avail.