Investment strategies


Or, I think I saw it for sale somewhere here in Florida.


OK, here goes…

Will Ellmer invited me to one of his sites, to put together one of my concepts, supposedly in front of ‘investors’ that could supposedly already view everything. Then, he started harassing me. When I tried to close ‘my’ account, that action was blocked, in order to falsely boost ‘membership’ numbers. In addition, he demanded money to ‘introduce’ my concepts to these ‘investors’. It took exchanges with @RandolphHencken and @joequirk to get that account closed.

You are welcome to do as you please. I’m sorry if you misunderstand the dynamics that have developed due to Will Ellmer’s abuses. Please be warned. @ellmer will stoop to misrepresentation, asking for opinions, and ignoring documentation, during his own rants for ‘scientific debate’. He has repeatedly lied about structures, their uses, purposes. Even their function, in order to impress people that do not know better, or fail to do their own research.

If the animosity between us appears to be one-sided, it is because, having been through that battle, I do not wilfully choose to allow him to make suckers of more people from this site. I try to warn people, based on my very real experience.

Breakaway Civilization | Seasteading | Ocean Colonization | Advanced Oceanic Cities | Atlantis | Enlightenment | Oceanic Business Alliance | next big thing in business
(Mariusz) #63

You’re right… I’m sorry. I was and still kind of am angry that on this forum we can’t have discussion without going for far off-topic that after a while the whole thread does not make sense anymore.

Forex just like stock market, bitcoin and other altcoins is speculative, and it does not matter if you can make it profitable. My original idea behind this thread (and apparently I wasn’t clear about it) was to have a discussion about investing in companies that would somehow benefit from seasteading/ocean colonization.
Investing in forex might be more profitable, but my original intent was not to invest just to make money, but also support companies that support our goals either directly or indirectly.

(.) #64

That might be a good idea, I donno enough about the stock market.

(Theodore M. Amenta) #65

As an experienced development professional, coming in from the outside a few weeks ago — How sad is all this negative tone. I spent 12 weeks mailing detailed information to Randy and Joe concerning the location, platform cost, construction specifics ----- NADA! result — I am not concerned. The Polynesia location is not "market feasible. Is anyone actually interested in what these words mean? Randy and Joe are not. I decided to enter the forum to collaborate with other second source interested parties ---- I came upon — Ellmer, Mark Stephan, Bob Llewellyn others ---- offering feed back — . I thank them for this. They propose Cay Sal in the Bahamas and Cartagena, Columbia – both are much more market feasible than Polynesia ---- Is anyone interested in why? I encourage that we stop the bickering and focus on real topics. Ted

(Bob LLewellyn) #66

[quote=“tamenta, post:65, topic:2119”]
Is anyone interested in why?[/quote]
I;m pretty sure I know why but it might be good to go over the reasoning so we are all on the same page.

Realizing that It might be difficult to get funding for a new program never really tried before, we went with memberships. My job is to get enough members to reach critical mass where it will continue to grow without a need for constant input or advertising. There is a good chance that we will get to talk with someone or company that can float a loan for the phase one portion of the project, which would shorten the duration but we can do it without that help if we need to.

Naturally, I too am open to new ideas and you have a couple that caught my attention. Memberships are important to Marinea for another reason than funding. We intend to make a new self governing country that can be replicated by others around the globe. To get other countries to accept a floating country as a viable alternative to land based living, we will not only have people signing a petition to be recognized by the UN but people that paid good money to sponsor the project and petitioning the UN to see us as we are, a different kind of people that should have our rights protected as any other group.

We are Mariners out of water, trying to get back home, and we’re not alone.


I’m more partial to the Gulf of Mexico, however, it poses the challenge of dealing with hurricanes. To get around that, I propose using the patented Ramform hull, as opposed to the fantasy art falsely promoted as such.

The Ramform design is being used in the North Sea, some of the consistently worst stormy waters, for geosurvey work.

Rather than a tiny, narrow hull, or a barge, IMHO, the Ramform offers a wider base to build on, retaining desirable characteristics for movement and control, while also offering shallow water operations.

Taking it down to the ‘yacht’ scale, it should still offer many of the same characteristics, yet allow even inland waterway building location possibilities, here in the Continental US.

Knocking expenses to the DIY level, using standard ferrocement hull construction techniques, it still runs to leisure home costs per square foot. Still, even that is 1/4 what TSI seems to be proposing for French Polynesia.

Suppose a moored formation had one residence and two or three IMTA units, trailing kelp, oysters, and such, down-current to mitigate fish wastes from caged fish, with the internal space as processing, refrigeration and storage space for a continual harvest, they could easily provide a full-time residence and occupation.

Getting the design planned, approved and a base to build and operate from, then the permits to do so, is a problem to be overcome.

(Theodore M. Amenta) #68

To — JL_Frusha — We have different life experiences, I expect. I am 75 and have built 5.0 million square feet of resorts, shopping centers, hotels and residential over 50-years. I expect (hope) you are younger. I am focused on the “cause” of building the floating platform — not so much the shape? I enjoy our interaction but I have come to accept that this “thread” is not actually providing my with necessary input — So I am stepping aside. I wanted to address you first because your positive energy — T

(Theodore M. Amenta) #69

Octavian (Spark): — I enjoyed our interaction but need to move on. I am working on a business plan and “prototype” design — I hope will thrill all the seasteaders — I need to move on – Ted

(.) #70

Best of luck to you Ted.
Fair winds and following seas!

(.) #71

310’ ft. 1,000 PAX - DOUBLE ENDED RORO - REBUILT IN 1988!!!


Yes, I am almost exactly 2 decades younger, and a grandfather. I have hands-on construction experience from things as small as a dog house, on up to framing forms for 3foot thick concrete slabs for dams, to 3 storey houses.

As a US Army Veteran with disabilities, the government regulates a lot of what I am not allowed to do for a living, so, I live on the lower 25% of income scale, in America.

Realistically, the exchange of preferences also shows optimization for usage and location. Various platforms will eventually be built for different environments and different purposes.

Barges and barge-like hulls are fine for protected waters.

A ship-like hull is necessary for the conditions I am planning for. Of the designs available, I have selected a newer, yet proven design that exhibits the properties I think are necessary for my chosen location. However, a design like I have picked can also be used in protected waters, where a typical barge hull cannot readily deal with the extremes of hurricanes, that I expect to encounter regularly.

The largest Ramform vessel built to date could easily house a traveling resort community, or a good sized commercial IMTA facility and personnel. However, it, too, can be moored in sheltered waters.

The largest barge that I know of, the N’Kossa, is designed around severe weather capabilities, but moored in tension, for stability.

It’s all good informational exchange. I enjoy the experience of trying to explain and refine my personal ideas on the subject.

Two of the largest problems I have seen is the lack of waste handling and the lack of onsite food production.

Plans to transfer sewage while at sea smack of naïveté and shortsightedness… An accident waiting to happen.

Plans to import food also show that lack of foresight.

I am planning for a homestead at sea, you, a resort. Different purposes and different approaches, ultimately achieving residences at sea.

Perhaps my idea of a floating homestead with IMTA will eventually supply your floating resort, helping make for a mutual assistance cooperative existence.

I just feel that without food, there will be a problem supporting the larger groups, whereas a food source first approach makes more sense, to me.

(Bob LLewellyn) #73

[quote=“JL_Frusha, post:72, topic:2119”]
Plans to transfer sewage while at sea smack of naïveté and shortsightedness… An accident waiting to happen.

Plans to import food also show that lack of foresight.[/quote]

??? OK JL you got me confused. Boats in marinas have been pumping out septic tanks for ever. For single boats not in a colony, it is just dumped into the sea. You are still thinking land restrictions. If there was an accident, lets say the hose broke and 5 gallons of raw sewage was dumped into the sea. Let’s say you are living on a boat 60X14’ and you have 20’ under your craft. That is 16,800 cubic feet of water. At 7.48 gal/foot^3 that’s 131040 gallons of water. now divide 5 gal of sewage (mostly water) by 131040 gal of water and you will have a concentration of .0038% or 38 parts per million. That will pass any city’s water supply standards anywhere in the world.

In addition to that, since man has killed off so many whales that fertilized the ocean bottom, food for plants and phytoplankton was lost. Plankton is eaten by zooplankton and other ity-bity sea creatures which is the food source for the rest of the ocean. One idea to counter the loss of natural fertilizers was to use raw waste from a land based waste treatment plants but no one wanted to deal with the fall out of an uninformed public opinion. So we have lost a lot of fish do to lack of food for them.

How do I know about all this shit? I worked for a summer at the waste treatment facility in Youngstown Ohio and took the New York waste treatment 3 course.

Here s the problem that most people face, they only know a little about waste treatment on land. If waste gets in a river, it fertilizes the grasses and such whose growth uses up the oxygen in the water killing the fish. It’s not the sewage that kills off the fish, it’s the lack of oxygen. In the ocean, we need the plants to grow, there is plenty of oxygen.

However, sooner or later, as the colony grows, we will need to purchase a used tank style barge (doubled haul) and cover it with a plastic or other clear material allowing the sun (heat) to get in. The sewage is pumped into the waste barge and the water evaporated off. After a while, the solids (called cake) will be removed and burnt. The ash left over is some of the best lawn fertilizer that you can have. In fact, do you like how green the White house lawn is? It uses fertilizer made at the local waste treatment plant.

Now food. All vegetables and most fruits can be grown hydroponically or aquaponics on smaller levels. Hydroponics uses less fertilizers and less water than crops grown on land. The only foods not conducive to growing in a farm barge is grains and trees. However, storage is another problem. We can’t put that food into cans, at least not at first so we will need to ship food from grocery suppliers just like they do on land. The difference is, we can sell them our fish and vegetables. A seastead need not be self sustaining, just self sufficient, meaning that we produce more for sale than we purchase from others.

Now a seastead that has not worked out trading (logistics) with their neighbors, they may have some problems.

(.) #74

Lets say a whale swims next to your seastead and takes a dump.
What can the environmentalists do or say. The whale says: “excuse me”


You’re more than welcome to swim, drink, fish, etc., in your sewage.

Single vessels do NOT dump raw sewage, legally. It STILL requires treatment, namely chlorination, usually via saline solution and electrolysis.

Transferring sewage, on open water is NOT the same as a dock-tied marina situation.

Don’t try to make me look stupid, when I’m the one concerned about it, simply because you cannot perceive the problems you choose to ignore.h

(.) #76

I say: “excuse me too”

ooo, investment strategies topics
The right one for raw sewage.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #77

I just love how the investment strategies topic got “fertilized”.

One might look at Russ George`s salmon miracle to understand the importance of iron rich whale dumpings for healty fish populations… ( investment worthy ! and beyond fed permit… )

Does he deserve a nobel prize for showing how to domesticate the ocean, does he deserve a prison sentence for unauthorized fertilizer dumping…

If we would be capeable to have a smart discussion about it, we would start at GALEN - greek philosopher who found out that… “the poision is in the DOSE”… and here is where @ForexBob the Mathematician with the scientific approach is on the right track…

Work Hypothesis: Right now the oceans are “extremly unnatural fertilizer depleted” and we need to do something about it if we want to feed 9 billion people on the planet.

Seasteading is about Enlightenment - scientific reason and calculus above scholastic emotional narrow minded viewpoints and fighting…“opinions”… it is not about who is right and emotionally wins the argument - it is about finding out on a scientific base what is “the right dose” to keep the planetary ecosistem in equilibrium.

I hereby authorize lonley sailor @spark to take a dump on open ocean when ever he feels the need in the name of reason and human progress… leaving the chlorine to the feds… scholastics and dogma in general.

… and back on topic - people should INVEST in reason, freedom, and pioneering…instead of scholastic rule sets…the future of humanity depends on it …

(.) #78

I would just like to give a practical advice:

Glonass u-Blocks USB gps receiver works well with SAS Planet software.
USB GPS receiver $10 on ebay, SAS Planet software: free download.


That well known oxygen depleted dead zone is due primarily to fertilizer and sewage runoff, via rivers and streams.

Despite claims otherwise, sewage BOD (biological oxygen demand) as well as that of chemical fertilizers, are well known issues. Safe to say that killing off the lifeforms in your habitat isn’t likely to be very beneficial to the human lifeforms, either.

(Bob LLewellyn) #80

[quote=“JL_Frusha, post:75, topic:2119”]
Single vessels do NOT dump raw sewage, legally.[/quote]

The Law

Sewage regulations are some of the most misunderstood boating laws. To be clear, it is ILLEGAL to discharge UNTREATED sewage on inland waters and within 3 miles of shore. To legally dispose of sewage boaters must either have an on-board treatment device (Type I or Type II MSD) or a holding tank (Type III MSD) to hold the waste and have it pumped out ashore. A No Discharge Zone (NDZ) further prohibits the discharge of treated boat sewage.

Within NDZ boundaries, vessel operators are required to retain their sewage discharges on-board for disposal at sea (beyond three miles from shore) or onshore at a pumpout facility.