Investment strategies


(Larry G) #41

There is no publicly traded seasteading stock. It seems unlikely that there will be. Do you mean other related industries and companies that may get bigger if seasteading becomes common?


(Bob LLewellyn) #42

[quote=“6d6b73, post:38, topic:2119”]
And forex is not speculative?.. Forex just like Bitcoin and other “coins” is even bigger casino than stocks are.[/quote]

Not the way I do it. Trading is one way to make a living when you’re out at sea. You come across angry and with a closed mind. I don’t talk about trading very much on here but I will do so now for your benefit. The link below will download 15 monthly broker reports, (like a bank account statement for investments). The monthly reports are all zipped up for easy downloading. Open it and you will find over 3000 trades with one loss, I think in Aug. Over 300% total profit and it was done in 2008-09 during one of the worst financial crashes in history.

Your restrictions were that the stock must be on the stock exchange, which one? Include over-the-counter exchange? Just US? No private offering? There is another way to learn about investment into seasteads without violating SEC rules, members of an investment club may be taught how and where to find these things.

Actually your restrictions make my antenna’s go up. It’s what a Fed would say. But I’m in the clear here. I don’t trade within the US. You see, those records started in April. I knew about the computer programs that give the brokers the edge but I did not know that they could watch for someone winning all the time. By August 2008, there was an announcement from the CFTC (Commodity Futures Trading Commission) that there would be a new rules change in one year and they were taking comments from traders. I protested but was basically told it was happening no matter what the citizens thought. The rule change was that you could no longer close a newer trade if you still had an older one open. It was called first in first out or FIFO. The other restriction added was to eliminate hedge trading. And what a coincidence, those are the two things that my computer program used.

The Federal Government shut me down with their rules. And let me add that the United States is the only country in the whole world that has those restrictions to forex trading. They stole millions in sales of my program to Americans. They pissed me right off. Now I am working to make my own country, a place where the government isn’t in bed with the banks, and making a seastead is the best way to get there. And I have all the motivation I need. The bastards didn’t even offer to by me out. It’s been 8 years and I am still pissed.

Mariusz wrote, “because more often than not people here are much smarter than me” Experience teaches us that it is often smarter to keep our knowledge to ourselves until we can better understand the situation. You can’t fault people living in the US from being a little cagey.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #43

@ForexBob | Bob, i am a networker and i take something good from EVERY project i am in. From the Marinea Boardroom i definitly take your 2 programs the PIG and RISE . For me as international person RISE is even more attractive. Definitly great tools both of them, sadly suppressed by political tainted regulations… this is why seasteading is important… ( my personal opinion ).

… could well be the case … we are on public forum… so i recommend it only for people who are NOT subject to those regulations…:upside_down: … basicly any investment opportunity feds get their hand on with their “regulations” falls back to a yield of never more than 2% on average - and keeps falling… ( S&P 500 - yields ) so becomes “unattractive by default”.


This has to do with the fact, that innovation and potential, key ingredients for growth and return on investment, can not florish in “fed regulated ambients”. So asking for “good investments in fed regulated spaces” is like asking for a circle with corners.

Seasteading is about potential and fast development outside fed regulated spaces…it is about spaces of freedom and innovation… it is about enlightenment and the creation of Galt’s Gulch, New Venice, and New Atlantis… it is about investing into a better future …


The oceanic business alliance is targeting a segment of the global elites that is “quite comfortable without fed regulations”… but that might not be for everybody. At the end one of the Seasteading core values is “everybody can have his way”… on a seastead of his own under rule sets he consents.

So if somebody wants to live his life under fed regulations and dedicate his investment strategies to serve them - he should do EXACTLY that…good luck and blessings from my side …


(Theodore M. Amenta) #44

Thank you again. I visit the site briefly and will return for more specific input. I have been stalled trying to get a Letter of Intent to Lease — (LOI) signed for a major occupancy. I need this for financing — Still months away. Thank you for your help. Ted


#45

Money will be made in seasteading BEFORE seasteading goes publicly traded. Meaning, investing in seasteading start up private companies NOW (equity, stock options, etc.) could be a very wise (and highly profitable) long term investing strategy.

There is a certain parallel to be drawn between seasteading and Facebook. Peter Thiel became Facebook’s first outside investor when he acquired a 10.2% stake for $500,000 in August 2004. He sold the majority of his shares in Facebook for over $1 billion in 2012.

While I wouldn’t expect such HUGE return, maybe in 8 years down the line some “First Seastead LLC” shares might be worth some decent money…

You never know.


(Bob LLewellyn) #46

[quote=“Octavian, post:16, topic:2119”]
You can take it as you will, but it wasn’t.[/quote]

You know Octavian, I never apologized for misreading that statement about only recommending TSIs project. I thought that since you were part of us when we started that you knew our project. But you are right, the project has matured and though not as grandiose, it is infinitely more practical. This led me to realize that most people won’t go to Marinea’s website without some reason to, so we will start a news and information alert feature. Free sign up to notify anyone interested in what is happening in the world of Ocean colonization in general and Marinea specifically. We will try to have that alert sign up available by this week end.

And Octavian, thanks for helping me identify a system failure.
Bob


(.) #47

Letter of Intent to Lease might be good.


(Larry G) #48

Indeed, this is “investment strategy”. People giving you money to build something that doesn’t have a track record of safety and profitability in return for a partial ownership stake in an asset that would have a limited market and massive price tag to sell if it becomes necessary to recoup operating losses, is a much harder sell than “I will lease you space on this facility I’m planning to build at favorable rates if you sign a letter of intent to occupy.”


(.) #49

Hi Octavian;

Only $550k. http://commercial.apolloduck.us/feature.phtml?id=519374
Yes, that is a fantastic deal. The possibility to park vehicles is a very
good one for a startup. People can arrive with a car or RV and get in.
If they decide to leave, they can drive off at next docking.

As everything, this deal has a disadvantage too. This disadvantage
has to be kept in mind and called to attention to all who get on the
boat.

This boat is a RoRo. RoRos are built for vehicle transport to roll on roll off.
There are few compartmentalized sections. When the hull of a RoRo is
broken, it can sink very fast. Example: Baltic Ace close to Rotterdam.
The Baltic Ace sank in 15 min after collision with a container cargo ship.
The other ship did not sink at all.
I would keep this in mind while thinking of retrofit, how to fix that.
There would be lots of money for the retrofit because the low price of
the vessel. Many of the vehicle parking could be kept too.
I think, it is a fantastic deal.


(Larry G) #50

This is a good point, but it depends a lot on the individual design and build of the individual ship. I’m finding that in boat-building, even standard designs ave a GREAT DEAL more variation than someone who is only familiar with car models might assume.

Changing the purpose of the vessel often changes the internal arrangement, and it’s amazing what kind of changes can be made to steel vessels. I have seen mega-yachts cut in half and entirely new sections welded into the middle to add LOTS of length to the original design. I’ve seen commercial ships and yachts have bow or stern cut off and completely re-designed in the replacement.

Adding more compartmentalization to an open-plan ferry type vessel doesn’t appear to be super difficult. you would need an engineer who can make sure that everything stays graceful (don’t create a situation where one flooded compartment creates so much shear force compared to an un-flooded compartment as to break the ship’s back or whatever) but the space to add bulkheads and even foam for positive flotation might be available, when the purpose of the vessel is changed from being a car ferry to a mixed-use residential and work space.

And on some level, at-sea collisions only result from incompetence.No vessel can be made completely proof against collision and grounding damage under storm conditions. But the ocean is a BIG place and proper watch standing is more cost effective than proofing against collision.


#51

Hi buddy.

More like a small ferry to me :)[quote=“spark, post:49, topic:2119”]
There are few compartmentalized sections.
[/quote]

We don’t now that. Got to check the plans. BUT, since it was in operation MUST have been Coast Guard approved therefore sound and operational (at some point).[quote=“spark, post:49, topic:2119”]
The Baltic Ace sank in 15 min after collision with a container cargo ship.
[/quote]

Lets not collide with anything :)[quote=“spark, post:49, topic:2119”]
There would be lots of money for the retrofit because the low price of
the vessel.
[/quote]

Well,…than lets go back to the houseboat seastead for a bargain.:slight_smile:


(Larry G) #52

I believe Spark means that the lower price would allow for lots more money to be left over and available for re-fit as necessary, perhaps compared to a $15m vessel where you’d pretty much be stuck with what you got for your $15m.

This is the kind of vessel and price that would lend itself well to a small number of families going in as a worker/resident-owned co-op.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #53

I am responding to Larry but acknowledge Spark and Octavian: — My non-binding LOI is a common practice in a transaction that has high risk. I read and witness the seasteading effort for nearly 10-years without yet creating a single prototype. Why? Please reflect on how many of the forum writers and thread started have ever implement a similar project? If you can identify them please send me their names — I will contact. I have implement similar projects in Japan, Korea, Greece, Italy, Florida and the Caribbean. I mean built work. I acknowledge they are land based — So I am struggling to find a water-based prototype. I am close. My LOI is not to avoid personal risk. I am spending full time on this. It is a common mechanism for advancing a project. — Ted


(Larry G) #54

Check out the vessel in this wingsail promo- suggested for retrofit, similar to that one. Right where the narrator says “reduce fuel consumption for ferries by 30%”.

Money left over for retro-fit might be spent on some alternative propulsion…


Stationary Sailboat Configuration
Modern Wind Propulsion
(Theodore M. Amenta) #55

JL — Permit, I am new to seasteading. You — JL are wrong. Ellmer has recently brought me to the table. I have raised a $1.0 billion plus for real estate investment in the US and world wide. — visit www.amentaco.com.— There was a saying in west Texas, many years ago. Don’t get off the porch if you can not piss with the big dogs," Let us stop being critics and be productive.

I am actively trying to raise money for a feasible prototype ---- Please give me your approach. Let me negotiate with you — non-binding — head-to-head. Give me an offer. $100 - $1000 — I will make you a counter offer — I day on the sea stead each year; days on the sea stead each year ---- all this in non-binding — just a survey of the tangible level of interest — :slight_smile: Ted


#56

No, I’m NOT wrong about Ellmer. YOU RAISED, not Ellmer.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #57

JL ---- You are always welcome aboard! In the interim I am trying to demonstrate the feasibility and implement a sea stead — Ellmer is also welcome, T


#58

I see. Very true, my misunderstanding.

Yes indeed. My only (personal) problem would be that the boat is in Seattle and I would rather “seastead” only 25-30 degrees N or S of the Equator, not higher.

I’m a tropical seasteader :sunny:


#59

Hi tameta,

Can you be more specific regarding what this “water-based prototype” is? A sestead design? A bit confusing here.

Also, upon clarification of terms, there will be more data needed to chose (or to be presented with) the “right” prototype, such as: price range - therefore size, location of operation, intended use (business, residential, mixed use), etc.

Are you willing to pay a finders fee :wink:?


(.) #60

I am a tropical person too, and a wannabe seasteader.
And I agree, let’s not collide with anything.
A refit could be good. A RoRo is generally few compartment, that
makes the roll on roll off possible.
However, the roll on roll off possibility could be a big advantage too.
There could be a very interesting business built with a vessel like that,
even without a refit. I would think of a floating motel type of deal, where
people can bring their cars along.

And I would not like to rain on anyone’s day, much less piss in their campfire.