I am new to this thread but recent to your larger group communication trail — several thoughts. Recent rule changes permit not-acredited investors. So as an elder who has been there several times ---- We are now on the up side of the 2007 - 2008 event. I am work gin on the financial feasibility of a sea stead. I have shared much with Bob. The most critical part of the sea stead aspiration, small or large is the cost/SF of the platform. Ted
Larry G — I am trying to be helpful. I calculate the cost of this platform as $7.5 million divided by 27,000 SF. Thus the cost of the floating platform (land) is $278 / SF. The reason this is “feasible” is the “land value” of the yachts /houseboats is built into the value of the yacht/houseboat hull — Not the floating platform — that provides "location, utilities et al. Please answer a question for me ---- What is the cost (/SF) of the floating platform upon which buildings are built? I am happy to share “open book” my prototype on which I have been working. ---- Ted
Thanks for the comment and insight into your thought processes.
The way I am reading the article (which may be right or wrong) is that the $7.5 million 27k sq ft is just the main platform upon which the superstructure “buildings” (restaurant, store, future casino, future hotel) are constructed, not the total marina docks & walks that provide the boat slips. The restaurant and other facilities, not the individual renters (boat) accommodations. Thus the land value of the walks and docks might very well be in the yacht hulls of the individual owners, but the main “Marina Village” has value in its construction.
I am not sure whether the $7.5 million includes the superstructure buildings- initially I presumed that it did and I still believe so, but this is not unequivocally evident.
I think the overall project was cited as being $80 million and counting, but I don’t know the whole extent of development included in that higher figure. A great deal of it would have been provided through specially-advantaged lending as well, not through an entirely open market investment. It appears to have been a joint federal parks and Native American nation venture. Often, the financial decisions in this kind of project are not run on a strict ROI basis.
That is “heavy method” price points:
TSI has published : USD 500 / SF
Powell Marina : USD 278 / SF
Price points | building methods
Singapore Landfill comes at USD 800 per square meter
Yacht Building comes with Up to USD 23.000 per square meter
I have published a price range of USD 50-800 per Square Meter ( = USD 4,6 - USD 70 per Square Foot), depending on the construction method.
• Heavy |
• Medium |
• Light |
And the general circumstances of the cost drivers of the project . (local logistics,interference, monopoly and network factors)
The lowest pricepoint is for the pilot project of “poor man´s floating island” the highest pricepoint for a platform that replaces a land building plot and has enough load bearing capacity to put normal land style buildings on it. (load bearing capacity in excess of 1 ton per square meter )
Fact is our projects are obviously able to compete with Landfill, Yacht building, Floating walkway Contractors, Oil industry projects, etc…
Doing something that is not new and not competitive with the things that are here already would be “pointless” and i would not bother to offer it in first place.
The here mentioned Powell Marina quadruplicates our price, the “dutch boys” are “off price target” for a factor 10.
Does that sound investment worthy - here is how to connect… there are 6 levels of becomming part of our alliance - the first level is free, club membership starts at USD 5, a project boardroom starts with USD 20.
This comparison is exactly what I was thinking- even this heavily subsidized project is approximately half of TSI projected cost.
This input is progress and valuable for me. Thank you both. I sense we all have the same mission — to implement a floating community. I am not expert in casinos. So I will set this aside. I know of no analysis of a “platform” at $500 / SF other than a 14-level cruise ship (hull). This is one of the catastrophic errors of the TSI effort. It I suspect is the reason Peter Thiel pulled out. ---- If we have the same objective to created floating communities, I ask you to suspend judgement on my in put and consider I may be right.
Here is my life experience. I have raised $50 million in equity and borrowed $400 million from J.P.Morgan to build Atlas Park in Glendale, Queens, NY; $100 million to build Goodwin Square in Hartford CT and $100 million to build 1.0 million square feet of mixed use called Somerset Square, in Glastonbury, CT — among other projects. Please accept the possibility that I might see something that otherwise in the seasteading community do not. I admit I am stalled — I am trying to finance an “incubator” at the moment ---- land cost is a problem. Ted
…hmm - if such catastrophic errors exists, it would not be polite to discuss them in detail on a TSI forum…especially not in a moment when they are reaching out for investors…
… and what would the upside of doing so be ?
I know who you are…i have google…your qualification has never been in question …
i would not dare to question the solid base of your input .
I only hope that we can keep what needs to be talked - in private - in the boardrooms… where such discussions belong - not out in the public - pls note that this is a “public thread”.
I know that you are right…i have no doubth about it.
Because people “driving by” (including your notional “investors”) shouldn’t be discouraged by seemingly universal sycophantic agreement with fantasy. If the emperor has no clothes, someone needs to say so.
Real Estate Paradigm Shift | oceanic business alliance | oceanic real estate | floating real estate |
I am new to the swirl of communication. I regret I am trying to share knowledge from which all might benefit — including TSI investors — if knowledge is not polite in the public square, I will go off line. I am reminded of the Confederacy of Dunces. published in the 1980’s, 10-years after the suicide of the author. I believe a sea stead is feasible ---- I serious thinking is applied. ted
Please do not give up on the forum completely. Wilfried Ellmer is not a forum administrator, does not speak for TSI, and does not speak for the general Seasteading community of Interest.
I agree — the emperor has no clothes — but there are clothes yet to be worn – Ted
@tamenta, As a professional in the industry, perhaps reaching out to International Marine Floatation Systems Inc. (IMFS) who designed and engineered that platform, is an option for you in a way that it is not really an option for dilettantes and amateurs such as myself.
This said by a “random person” would not mean a lot.
But said by Theodore M. Amenta THIS means SOMETHING - the global elites should hear it…and rise an eyebrow about it…
These are some good recommendations.
Also +1 for keeping this on topic, while the rest of the people took the usual road - off topic bickering and day dreaming.
This topic was about investing in stock market which does not require anyone to be an accredited investor.
And forex is not speculative? I asked for stock for one reason - so that we could invest in companies that can help seasteading. When they grow, they will have more money to invest back into marine economy which will be good for us. Forex just like Bitcoin and other “coins” is even bigger casino than stocks are.
I did not ask for opinion from people sitting in the boardrooms, just for some recommendations if anyone has them.
If they are not on the stock market I’m not interested.
There are a lot of "random’ people on the internet, but I like to read all of their opinions because more often than not people here are much smarter than me. I don’t claim to have all of the solutions to all of our problems like you do, and this is why I ask “random persons”, hoping that some of them will share their knowledge with me. That’s how I grow as a person.
What makes you think that I did not google that term?
Wilfried Ellmer makes many unsubstantiated claims, posts outright false information, misrepresents images, and runs multiple websites geared to putting money into his pockets. He has never brought a single ‘investor’ to the table in this forum, has no publicly traded stocks or bonds, etc.