Investment strategies


(.) #49

Hi Octavian;

Only $550k. http://commercial.apolloduck.us/feature.phtml?id=519374
Yes, that is a fantastic deal. The possibility to park vehicles is a very
good one for a startup. People can arrive with a car or RV and get in.
If they decide to leave, they can drive off at next docking.

As everything, this deal has a disadvantage too. This disadvantage
has to be kept in mind and called to attention to all who get on the
boat.

This boat is a RoRo. RoRos are built for vehicle transport to roll on roll off.
There are few compartmentalized sections. When the hull of a RoRo is
broken, it can sink very fast. Example: Baltic Ace close to Rotterdam.
The Baltic Ace sank in 15 min after collision with a container cargo ship.
The other ship did not sink at all.
I would keep this in mind while thinking of retrofit, how to fix that.
There would be lots of money for the retrofit because the low price of
the vessel. Many of the vehicle parking could be kept too.
I think, it is a fantastic deal.


(Larry G) #50

This is a good point, but it depends a lot on the individual design and build of the individual ship. I’m finding that in boat-building, even standard designs ave a GREAT DEAL more variation than someone who is only familiar with car models might assume.

Changing the purpose of the vessel often changes the internal arrangement, and it’s amazing what kind of changes can be made to steel vessels. I have seen mega-yachts cut in half and entirely new sections welded into the middle to add LOTS of length to the original design. I’ve seen commercial ships and yachts have bow or stern cut off and completely re-designed in the replacement.

Adding more compartmentalization to an open-plan ferry type vessel doesn’t appear to be super difficult. you would need an engineer who can make sure that everything stays graceful (don’t create a situation where one flooded compartment creates so much shear force compared to an un-flooded compartment as to break the ship’s back or whatever) but the space to add bulkheads and even foam for positive flotation might be available, when the purpose of the vessel is changed from being a car ferry to a mixed-use residential and work space.

And on some level, at-sea collisions only result from incompetence.No vessel can be made completely proof against collision and grounding damage under storm conditions. But the ocean is a BIG place and proper watch standing is more cost effective than proofing against collision.


#51

Hi buddy.

More like a small ferry to me :)[quote=“spark, post:49, topic:2119”]
There are few compartmentalized sections.
[/quote]

We don’t now that. Got to check the plans. BUT, since it was in operation MUST have been Coast Guard approved therefore sound and operational (at some point).[quote=“spark, post:49, topic:2119”]
The Baltic Ace sank in 15 min after collision with a container cargo ship.
[/quote]

Lets not collide with anything :)[quote=“spark, post:49, topic:2119”]
There would be lots of money for the retrofit because the low price of
the vessel.
[/quote]

Well,…than lets go back to the houseboat seastead for a bargain.:slight_smile:


(Larry G) #52

I believe Spark means that the lower price would allow for lots more money to be left over and available for re-fit as necessary, perhaps compared to a $15m vessel where you’d pretty much be stuck with what you got for your $15m.

This is the kind of vessel and price that would lend itself well to a small number of families going in as a worker/resident-owned co-op.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #53

I am responding to Larry but acknowledge Spark and Octavian: — My non-binding LOI is a common practice in a transaction that has high risk. I read and witness the seasteading effort for nearly 10-years without yet creating a single prototype. Why? Please reflect on how many of the forum writers and thread started have ever implement a similar project? If you can identify them please send me their names — I will contact. I have implement similar projects in Japan, Korea, Greece, Italy, Florida and the Caribbean. I mean built work. I acknowledge they are land based — So I am struggling to find a water-based prototype. I am close. My LOI is not to avoid personal risk. I am spending full time on this. It is a common mechanism for advancing a project. — Ted


(Larry G) #54

Check out the vessel in this wingsail promo- suggested for retrofit, similar to that one. Right where the narrator says “reduce fuel consumption for ferries by 30%”.

Money left over for retro-fit might be spent on some alternative propulsion…


Stationary Sailboat Configuration
Modern Wind Propulsion
(Theodore M. Amenta) #55

JL — Permit, I am new to seasteading. You — JL are wrong. Ellmer has recently brought me to the table. I have raised a $1.0 billion plus for real estate investment in the US and world wide. — visit www.amentaco.com.— There was a saying in west Texas, many years ago. Don’t get off the porch if you can not piss with the big dogs," Let us stop being critics and be productive.

I am actively trying to raise money for a feasible prototype ---- Please give me your approach. Let me negotiate with you — non-binding — head-to-head. Give me an offer. $100 - $1000 — I will make you a counter offer — I day on the sea stead each year; days on the sea stead each year ---- all this in non-binding — just a survey of the tangible level of interest — :slight_smile: Ted


#56

No, I’m NOT wrong about Ellmer. YOU RAISED, not Ellmer.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #57

JL ---- You are always welcome aboard! In the interim I am trying to demonstrate the feasibility and implement a sea stead — Ellmer is also welcome, T


#58

I see. Very true, my misunderstanding.

Yes indeed. My only (personal) problem would be that the boat is in Seattle and I would rather “seastead” only 25-30 degrees N or S of the Equator, not higher.

I’m a tropical seasteader :sunny:


#59

Hi tameta,

Can you be more specific regarding what this “water-based prototype” is? A sestead design? A bit confusing here.

Also, upon clarification of terms, there will be more data needed to chose (or to be presented with) the “right” prototype, such as: price range - therefore size, location of operation, intended use (business, residential, mixed use), etc.

Are you willing to pay a finders fee :wink:?


(.) #60

I am a tropical person too, and a wannabe seasteader.
And I agree, let’s not collide with anything.
A refit could be good. A RoRo is generally few compartment, that
makes the roll on roll off possible.
However, the roll on roll off possibility could be a big advantage too.
There could be a very interesting business built with a vessel like that,
even without a refit. I would think of a floating motel type of deal, where
people can bring their cars along.

And I would not like to rain on anyone’s day, much less piss in their campfire.


#61

Or, http://tikibeach.com/tikki.html. I think I saw it for sale somewhere here in Florida.


#62

OK, here goes…

Will Ellmer invited me to one of his sites, to put together one of my concepts, supposedly in front of ‘investors’ that could supposedly already view everything. Then, he started harassing me. When I tried to close ‘my’ account, that action was blocked, in order to falsely boost ‘membership’ numbers. In addition, he demanded money to ‘introduce’ my concepts to these ‘investors’. It took exchanges with @RandolphHencken and @joequirk to get that account closed.

You are welcome to do as you please. I’m sorry if you misunderstand the dynamics that have developed due to Will Ellmer’s abuses. Please be warned. @ellmer will stoop to misrepresentation, asking for opinions, and ignoring documentation, during his own rants for ‘scientific debate’. He has repeatedly lied about structures, their uses, purposes. Even their function, in order to impress people that do not know better, or fail to do their own research.

If the animosity between us appears to be one-sided, it is because, having been through that battle, I do not wilfully choose to allow him to make suckers of more people from this site. I try to warn people, based on my very real experience.


Breakaway Civilization | Seasteading | Ocean Colonization | Advanced Oceanic Cities | Atlantis | Enlightenment | Oceanic Business Alliance | next big thing in business
(Mariusz) #63

You’re right… I’m sorry. I was and still kind of am angry that on this forum we can’t have discussion without going for far off-topic that after a while the whole thread does not make sense anymore.

Forex just like stock market, bitcoin and other altcoins is speculative, and it does not matter if you can make it profitable. My original idea behind this thread (and apparently I wasn’t clear about it) was to have a discussion about investing in companies that would somehow benefit from seasteading/ocean colonization.
Investing in forex might be more profitable, but my original intent was not to invest just to make money, but also support companies that support our goals either directly or indirectly.


(.) #64

That might be a good idea, I donno enough about the stock market.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #65

As an experienced development professional, coming in from the outside a few weeks ago — How sad is all this negative tone. I spent 12 weeks mailing detailed information to Randy and Joe concerning the location, platform cost, construction specifics ----- NADA! result — I am not concerned. The Polynesia location is not "market feasible. Is anyone actually interested in what these words mean? Randy and Joe are not. I decided to enter the forum to collaborate with other second source interested parties ---- I came upon — Ellmer, Mark Stephan, Bob Llewellyn others ---- offering feed back — . I thank them for this. They propose Cay Sal in the Bahamas and Cartagena, Columbia – both are much more market feasible than Polynesia ---- Is anyone interested in why? I encourage that we stop the bickering and focus on real topics. Ted


(Bob LLewellyn) #66

[quote=“tamenta, post:65, topic:2119”]
Is anyone interested in why?[/quote]
I;m pretty sure I know why but it might be good to go over the reasoning so we are all on the same page.

Realizing that It might be difficult to get funding for a new program never really tried before, we went with memberships. My job is to get enough members to reach critical mass where it will continue to grow without a need for constant input or advertising. There is a good chance that we will get to talk with someone or company that can float a loan for the phase one portion of the project, which would shorten the duration but we can do it without that help if we need to.

Naturally, I too am open to new ideas and you have a couple that caught my attention. Memberships are important to Marinea for another reason than funding. We intend to make a new self governing country that can be replicated by others around the globe. To get other countries to accept a floating country as a viable alternative to land based living, we will not only have people signing a petition to be recognized by the UN but people that paid good money to sponsor the project and petitioning the UN to see us as we are, a different kind of people that should have our rights protected as any other group.

We are Mariners out of water, trying to get back home, and we’re not alone.
Bob


#67

I’m more partial to the Gulf of Mexico, however, it poses the challenge of dealing with hurricanes. To get around that, I propose using the patented Ramform hull, as opposed to the fantasy art falsely promoted as such.

The Ramform design is being used in the North Sea, some of the consistently worst stormy waters, for geosurvey work.

Rather than a tiny, narrow hull, or a barge, IMHO, the Ramform offers a wider base to build on, retaining desirable characteristics for movement and control, while also offering shallow water operations.

Taking it down to the ‘yacht’ scale, it should still offer many of the same characteristics, yet allow even inland waterway building location possibilities, here in the Continental US.

Knocking expenses to the DIY level, using standard ferrocement hull construction techniques, it still runs to leisure home costs per square foot. Still, even that is 1/4 what TSI seems to be proposing for French Polynesia.

Suppose a moored formation had one residence and two or three IMTA units, trailing kelp, oysters, and such, down-current to mitigate fish wastes from caged fish, with the internal space as processing, refrigeration and storage space for a continual harvest, they could easily provide a full-time residence and occupation.

Getting the design planned, approved and a base to build and operate from, then the permits to do so, is a problem to be overcome.


(Theodore M. Amenta) #68

To — JL_Frusha — We have different life experiences, I expect. I am 75 and have built 5.0 million square feet of resorts, shopping centers, hotels and residential over 50-years. I expect (hope) you are younger. I am focused on the “cause” of building the floating platform — not so much the shape? I enjoy our interaction but I have come to accept that this “thread” is not actually providing my with necessary input — So I am stepping aside. I wanted to address you first because your positive energy — T