Intended Incubator Site as Complete Support Base of Operations for the Gulf of Mexico


#41

I’m open, but I’m going to need assistance getting onto it, then take on a reasonable mortgage. I’ve even looked into property up the Mississippi and as far Notrh of me as Port of Catoosa, in Oklahoma.

As a 100% Disabled Veteran, I get a total property tax exemption, but it will have to be unrestricted use, to create the Incubator Site. Mainly, I’m guessing 10-15 acres should be sufficient, depending.


(bill mapezzi) #42

This would leave spark alone and isolated on the west coast…


#43

Other forum members live on the West Coast, or, like us, Spark could move…


(bill mapezzi) #44

Well I’ve thought about Corpus Christi or further south of actullay moving there twice before. I can live in my truck parked anywhere there is parking, and most of my good paying loads start in Houston or Victoria anyways. Plus i got some sort of Reynaud’s sydrome or something…my hands and feet get cold and hurt even in 50 degrees. But I’m sold on getting paid to construct with used tires…I’ll check it out some more there in Texas.no legal alternative meds/recreation…shouldn’t be too much of a bother if I was driving part time anyway…Damn wind has killed all my projects here in Nowhere,Nevada. I don’t believe my property is worth much yet, dropped from 140k to 25k but at least its clear, I can sit on it but I’m pretty much unreliable for anything much over 1000/mo (even when I drive at 200-500/day). I get money I wan’t to build another boat…


#45

I get ~$3200/month and most of that’s gone, before the 5th. It would probably run $50k-65k to get us into and onto anything suitable, but I have lifetime residency, Texas Veterans Land Board financing and that tax exemption to boost things.


(bill mapezzi) #46

Idk, I looked at land threre. Maybe one could rent/lease a coulple acres of waterfront “farmland” for 500/month but they were asking $20,000 for vacant 1 acre land locked lots outside city limits…If you know hydroponics you know you can grow “at sea” cheaper than than on land because you don’t need to pay for land, cheap self formulated nutrient solution is about 1/2 cent/gallon (and could, maybe have to recycle it). desalinated water is only 1/3 cent per gallon. Just need a non-pressure environment “large boatyard” and mailing address. I also checked used tires out…basically free only, no disposal fees paid. too many places to dump tires still apparently. I was hoping 50 - 66k was the full cash price for 15 acres. You mean down payment and closing cost don’t you?..You need a website and advertise. a dozen or so retired yacht builders might could come up with 5,000 each. I’m looking into figuring some logistics and advertising on craigslist - “tire disposal drop site” .95 cents/tire.There seems to be a way to repurpose them as a yacht building material and work with only 499 “waste tirer” limit at any one time. Then sell $8,000 (give away on payments if you had to. Just don’t repo it till you find a new title holder) 54 fishing rafts that you build out of 1/4 the money you collected from using the tires. Like 2/week. Then charge 120 bucks a month each yacht to manage a “manned mooring system”. If I couldn’t string together 2000 tires twice a week and wrap them up securely in plastic sheeting (buyer could order with rubber as option-extra $1200 cash only) slide them into the water off a lightweight (long) trailer and tie them together and sign papers for the new owner…I wouldn’t know why. A time share 54 foot sea worthy sportfishing barge, that one could live on would sell in Los Angeles. I’m sure Texas also but no guaranteed paid labor/materials/profit, one might have to innovate some upgrades for it… Wow - mobile vending plaforms! no engine no documentation automatic pass for commercial “vessel”. I have to check Texas. I did this back in California with Coast Guard, didn’t get my documentation but some guy came out and signed my required form from the commercial fishing license agency. It was over “5 net tons” but there was nothing for him to inspect.


(bill mapezzi) #47

I’m pretty sure I read that one can get “organic” certification now using non-organic salts instead of having to use nitroglycerin:upside_down_face: which would have really pissed the “composters” off.


(Chad Elwartowski) #48

While I like the idea of growing your own food for sustainability, when it comes to seasteads that is one of the bigger challenges economically. There are huge farms that grow food efficiently. Food might be better as one of the final things to focus on, especially in an area where you can just go to the store and buy food for less than it would likely cost to grow your own.

I raised chickens and calculated the cost of the feed, the time spent, the cost of the coop and it would have taken me decades to recoup my cost for the eggs. Though likely I was losing money due to buying the feed. Eggs are pretty darn cheap.


#49

Part of the setup would include an intensive livestock operation.

Pasture-raised poultry, pork, goats, sheep, cattle, alpacas, etc. in multiple paddocks, moved weekly. Trick is to allow enough down-time between animals that can potentially share parasites.

The rotation allows the different natural foods to recover (brush/ground-cover/roots), as well, eliminating feed costs. Additionally, selecting among the multi-purpose breeds, you get dual-purpose poultry (meat & eggs), mini-cattle (meat/milk/labor), alpaca (meat/fiber/predator protection/labor),…

So, what kind of labor can a small site use livestock for…?
Treadmill-type operations can operate any micro-h.p. application such as pumps, grinders, hoists, etc., plus cart-work, like carrying larger harvests from the garden to wherever it gets processed, etc. Heck, people are converting exercise treadmills to generate power for laptops and to charge cellphones. Backup generator to run L.E.D. lights when even the batteries have died?

Mainly, though, think of it as a cooperative food resource type project. In-season, Farm-fresh produce in exchange for fresh seafood, surpluses go to sales…

Jeff Frusha


(noboxes) #50

Ditto. You must be able to abuse the tax laws for write-offs, and be a diverse and vertically integrated business. What might work out for chickens on a seastead is the amount of protein “waste” they can eat, and the amount of eggs and meat they can generate. Rabbits are quieter and don’t generally fly away, but they are picky eaters and don’t lay eggs. Goats give milk, but take up more room, and can be quite loud.

But there’s side effects of having a garden, and having some 5 gallon buckets, or 3x8 microplots, seems like a worthy idea if you have the space and can keep the salt spray off them. A larger system might even be part of the “waste management” system.


(noboxes) #51

I wonder (as in: i don’t know) if that is scaring off anyone financing you. To get a break-even farm going from scratch will take time, and the first flood wipes it out, because as seasteaders, we know farms don’t float. I am all for gardens, but around here only the rich can afford them, everyone around here with garden or animals has had to hire lawyers and goto court over dogs roaming loose. It’s a two-way street : various farm animals are difficult (aka pricey) to keep contained also. And to be honest, farm animals can be just as noisey as dogs barking. One small farmer up the road here doused his garden in trash fire smoke every night: his food smelled like rural trash fire no matter how much it was washed. You could have such a neighbor impacting your farming operations, it simply should not be part of the seasteading business.

Please, it’s not me you need to convince about the value of a garden. I put maybe 50% more money than my land purchase price into lawyers, fence, etc before i gave up. Seriously, it would have been cheaper to float a farmette and live out there with it, and been healthier and more pleasant too. Your food department could be another plot of land 10 miles away from the floatie department and still be a viable and desireable business, owned and financed separately (for various reasons).

There’s to much in favor of seasteading (barring the legal and security drawbacks) to complicate the SSB with a good farm. I mean, if i decide to start up a new Delorian clone factory, would i pitch the idea to the bank as a necessary part of a farm for my employees? Would having a rotating pasture of alpacas be part of a business manufacturing boat engines? And i say this in all friendliness, we both know someone on irc who works next to a business with employees who turn rabbits loose to mow their lawn, and i think that’s a great idea, but it has nothing to do with their business or seasteading, and isn’t part of their business plan.


#52

I didn’t say it was an overnight ‘buy this’ solution. Sure, someone could throw a few million and put it together with off-the-shelf purchases, but in order to make it long-term feasible, it has to support whoever runs it. If we don’t have food on the table, we aren’t going to be doing much of anything anywhere else.

So, as a homestead operation, I cut expenses everywhere I can and make the payments, while working toward building the entire project. The components are critical to the functionality. Any electronic device without a power supply is just so much garbage.

The number one criticism that Bob Ballard had about the logistics of seasteading is that nobody was planning for food production, but, people have to eat…

If it’s not a fairly complete plan, how many more ways can it fail?

"… Complete Support Base… "


(noboxes) #53

I agree. But maybe the farming operation has a better chance of start-up financial success if it is made to put aboard a seastead from the get-go? Ballard and Neumeyer were not talking about a land-based operation. What if you reset the plan to building, and having on-hand in stock, operational and productive, ready-made hydroponics and various other seasteading drop-in packages built entirely for the seasteader? Instead of the land-based version of farming? And put it on a floatie to prove it can be done on a floatie, and be immune to the hurricane flooding that’s going to be inevitable for a water-front SSB? This will settle several issues of “farming the seastead” and reduce the acreage requirements on land.


(noboxes) #54

I am on your side. I am all for eating food, i have eaten some food in my time. I’m an omnivore, and i can be picky. And i like to smell the plants my food is being produced by. Remember, this is someone who planted a garden on the roof when that was the only way to have a garden. I am only trying to find acceptable ways to more tightly integrate the farm to the seastead concept (that vertical integration thing), and get more positive features of it for you and for financiers. I mean, if it is built on a floatie, and isn’t wiped away in a hurricane, that’s a plus all the way around, isn’t it? And if you can point to it as such and it’s plain to see that the seasteader needs it and it’s obviously working, it’s an impulse sale for you, right?


#55

The components of each seastead will vary according to the design and design goals of the people making it. “Here! I have brand X-aquaponics/hydroponics/etc. You have to adapt your design to fit what I’m selling” isn’t my goal.


(noboxes) #56

Item #1 : available for sale as is, here it is, it’s working as is.

Item #2 : it’s like Item #1, but built as needed to your specs.

The problem with Item #2 is it has your name on it, and the new owner can bad-mouth you all over the internet if their mods to your thing do not work like Item #1. But there is Item #1, it’s providing you food and/or some other services, and it’s a business tax deduction.

But yea, chances are i am wrong all over this.


#57

Not my point, nor my goal.

My goals include providing a place people can model, test, build their concept, not sell them the parts to a kit.

You have your systems concepts, or you didn’t plan space for them… I’m not providing a one-stop-shop seastead kit-store. I’m planning for each builder to need a place to model, test in scale and build their design, not variations of mine (unless, of course, they choose my design, then I can try to help)


(noboxes) #58

I appologise. I keep on thinking you want to sell IMTA systems, and the methane generators too. It might help keep the lights on, pay for satalite internet, etc etc…


#59

Yes, I want to prove my IMTA, including the wave-reduction zone concept works. Then I might have partial ownership in my concept. Going to take University backing to get the necessary permits for that, though.

Biogas? Most certainly. There is a whole host of issues that will have to be accounted for, on a concept-by-concept basis. How much space do you have to dedicate to a Digester system? How much Biogas do you expect to need on a daily basis? I can backtrack and figure up a design that should put that out, based on sufficient quantities and the types of feedstocks…


(noboxes) #60

I am so confused. Didn’t you just say you were not going to sell kits etc?