Host Country interference level | Cartagena | Colombia | oceanic business alliance


(Wilfried Ellmer) #1

Continuing the discussion from Fieberling Tablemount (Guyot) as a possible seastead location:


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(.) #2

How about no visa requirements for permanent residency on a seastead in the bay of Cartagena?
Well, I just figured out the answer for that. It has to do something with territorial waters.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #3

Visa requirement - no problem several ways all easy to go…


(.) #4

Sounds good. Thank you for that information.


#5

I might have missed it ellmer, but do you have a link regarding the ‘easy’ visa requirements?


(Wilfried Ellmer) #6

When i entered colombia 1995 i told the official that i have intention to stay permanently and he stamped a permanent visa with no expire date into my passport. Took 3 seconds to make me colombian resident.
I later sent a lawyer to get me a cedula (the colombian id dcoument) took the lawyer an afternoon to get it done. Have lived here since without being molested by anybody. Still conserve my Austrian passport.


#7

Interesting. Do you have any reason to believe/disbelieve it has changed in the interim?


(Wilfried Ellmer) #8

It may be that the proceedure has changed but not the “general actitude” the reason is that when IRA (irland) went out of violence business at home their bomb makers went here to instruct guerilla, so they started to have an eye on european expats (check every 3 years what they doing). But the entity in charge of that was dissolved and the problem was obviously solved too, so i assume they are back to relaxed attitud to imigration . In colombia most things run local type condo administration, Cartagena has an eye on ship tripulations but is relaxed on yachts i am currently building up the Cartagena Marine Cluster that includes a international marina and a floating pension plan village i am confident that we can have a “extremly relaxed actitude” with seastead and baystead residents - checked that with government and looks we can have a similar status as a indian tribe reserve for a seastead phase2 and a own flag for phase3.


#9

Wouldn’t a seastead in the Bay of Cartagena be a baystead technically?


(Wilfried Ellmer) #10

I would suggest to build a seastead as a concrete shell honeycomb stucture that is capable to leave the bay. But even so phase 1 and 2 are better in a protected bay only phase 3 and beyond can develop on the open ocean.


(Jonas Smith) #11

The ugly9 things you can’t do on a floating platform in the Bay of Cartagena…


(Wilfried Ellmer) #12

" ugly 9 " ?

That is only a “theory of yours” that is not based on facts.


When i investigated Cartagena baysteading options (i live here and have a strong business network) for the Floating City Project i actually digged quite into that and had my talks with my network and the local and central government. The short answer is you CAN do anything exept the ugly4 .


I have very specific details what that means and where the red lights are as this info was given to me under NDA agreement i can only talk about the large picture - and this is ugly 4 exclusion is the only limit. Things like free tradezone status, tribal territory status for as seastead, special banking, flag of convenience and own flag, own laws, own police, outside jurisdiction, where discussed and accepted into a host nation agreement.


It is Randy’s call to move that forward but the “collaboration of the host nation” is certainly no issue in practice if you do a baystead in Cartagena - on contrary - the mutual benefit is obvious to anybody and projects are welcome in the Cartagena Marine Cluster effort.



(Jonas Smith) #13

Show me a single floating anything in the Bay of Cartagena where you can legally carry a concealed firearm without a permit.

Either I see proof or it doesn’t exist. I don’t trust anyone on the internet, even Nigerians offering to send me money.


(.) #14

Hi Ellmer,
I have never been to Colombia.
This indian tribe kind of status sounds good.
Here in the US the indian lands have sovereignty.
They are like a different country within the US.


(Jonas Smith) #15

No, they are considered “domestic dependent nations”. They have limited self-rule and have limited rights when working with state government in regards to taxes and commerce. But they are still under the full authority of the federal government and, in many cases, state law as well.


#16

And adding to what Jonas stated: The USG government pushed very hard to ‘integrate’ the Indian tribes back during the 50s and 60s, by buying their land, giving them citizenship, etc to wipe out both tribal lands and identity. A number of those either fought it off when it happened, or fought back after it happened and regained their tribal sovreignity, but many either never had, or never regained tribal land status. There is a whole wikipedia article linking to all the relevant citations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_reservation <-- See ‘Indian New Deal’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_title_in_the_United_States <-- One way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_termination_policy <-- The big one.

Collectively, the governments of the world have one thing they hate more than anything: Others trying to dilute their legitimacy of sovereign will by spreading rather than consolidating it.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #17

It is interesting for several reasons the first is in Colombia indian tribes are “fully independent nations” to the point that a tribe member can not be enjailed for severe faults like murder but must me handed over to his nation to be handled according to THEIR cultural values that do NOT include enclosing humans (whatever they may do wrong) like an animal. - What was surprising for me when i heared this the first time. A specific tribe was even “in war” with the colombian government specificly with an oil company that had a government licence until 1930.


things happening pictureing the frame

It is still happening that Colombian soldiers in anti drug operations in the jungle crossing tribal borders are disarmed and hold back until the government “bails them out in - chief to chief talks” (strict non shoot order for government soldiers if they come accidently in such situations).


It is also happening that those tribes living nomadic cross national borders Venezuela Colombia without passport control.


practicability is driver

The explanation for this is in history and the forming of south american nations under ideals of enlightenment and the ideas of Simon Bolivar rather than along European 19th century nationalist ideas. Baseline is - rater than a grounded state things develop along negociations of “different interest groups finding their come along”. A process very similar to the forming of the “freedom of the seas” and law of the seas where “practicability and customs” is the principal driver.


A agressive “forming of a unified nation” under a single “text code” never happened never was considered essencial never was considered necessary. This opens cultural leeway for forming of special communities with special statuses that can go farer than a “US formed citicen” could ever imagine - i get this from the incredibility comments i hear from US thread participants. - but sometimes you just have to look up from your plate to see a whole new world of options.




(Wilfried Ellmer) #18

…that may well be a “perception error” caused by not looking sufficiently around in the world - as seen from my comment above - nations are formed under very different actitudes covering a wide range of “founding ideals” and “agressive nationalistic” is not the common denominator by default… :smile:


#19

Or it could be someone missing the collective change in the forest for the tree they chose to live in. :slight_smile:

But that is what makes this place either excellent or terrible, depending on the individual: The collection of wildly disparate opinions, experiences, and ideas put forth.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #20

in fact special statuses for indian tribes are just “the tip of the iceberg” in Colombia, this goes from special trade zones in ports to “special statuses” for “Hare Krishna” groups owning a farm…in short the host nation agreement of a baystead in Colombia is based on a “culturally fertile ground of special statuses”. i only became aware of after living for 18 years in this country and i would have never imagined possible when born and living in Europe for the other half of my 53 old life.