Geopolymer Concrete, the perfect seasteading material


#82

It’s not that simple at sea, Dave…There is a world of difference between being buoyant and being seaworthy.


#83

Yea, if it isn’t seaworthy,

too.


#84

All flotation is displacement. Not all displacement is flotation.


(.) #85

Wow and 20 more characters


#86

Method to reshape Basalt FRTP rebar. Also allows the bent rebar to retain a desired shape with its’ tendency to act as a laminated spring, and rebound to the new, desired shape.

http://discuss.seasteading.org/t/f-r-t-p-fiber-reinforced-thermoplastic-polymer-reinforcement-bar/872/9?u=jl_frusha


#87

As I see it, the two best features of Geopolymer cement/concrete are the increased durability and that it can be x-rayed, for inspection. BOTH of which coincide nicely with the use of Basalt FRTP rebar, for a reinforced cement hull design, with greater safety and durability, that retains its’ market value.

My number one question is: How does it compare, cost-wise, to cement/concrete? I may well have overlooked a cost analysis, somewhere, as I haven’t searched every thread on the site and don’t remember the subject from when I was active in the old forum.


#88

Is there any chance you can get the millionaire backers of TSI to set up a small lab out there were you are, and do some test pours and evaluations?


#89

I seriously doubt it. My concept runs along a different concept. They are city builders, while I want to build a farm. Doesn’t matter that their city needs a food supply, they don’t really cover that, too well.

I see a lot of big-picture, but they haven’t got the minute details worked on. Waste handling, for example. I’ve introduced a way to manage and utilize waste, produce food and make/collect fresh water. Don’t see a damned thing about that, just the assumption that something will be done.


#90

I agree, it is very frustrating. It’s a little like China saying they are taking care of the coral reefs while they dredge and build islands on top of them. People are saying “this will happen”, but they do little to make it happen.


(Larry G) #91

A constant problem with city people. And Americans in general: too many of us are removed from practical trades that understand how civilization actually works, we’ve got a ton of people now coasting on what the last couple generations built. Ask any random sample of ten people how telephones work- not cell phones, that’s way too advanced. Ask them how an old analog wired telephone works. They can’t tell you the simplest technical detail. They can’t even tell you how the microphone works.

Even very smart well educated people often cannot tell you the principle upon which other systems in their lives work (the ones they don’t directly deal with in their job). They just assume that it will all continue. Especially if the maintenance of that system involves physical strength/endurance, getting dirty, risking injury, or is uncomfortably hot or cold. If it’s not an air conditioned desk job, people look down on it. If it doesn’t take a college degree, people look down on it.

I know that TSI was conceived to incubate ideas, not to fund or build them all. But I am pretty disappointed they have never provided any benefit to the people who would be willing to build. No labs built, no libraries collected, no membership benefits to research institutions, no group discounts to materials vendors.

Despite having a bay, San Fran is about the worst place they could base themselves out of for cost and accessibility. There could be an STI office in a dozen places around the nation with access to marine building capabilities for the DIY set for the cost of an office in SF. Dozens of coastal towns in N California, Oregon and Washington that have fishing fleets and open ocean experience going begging because of industry slowdowns.

http://portofcoosbay.com/economic.htm

But TSI has provided nothing but a forum where people snipe at each other more often than they contribute to the discussion. Anybody could put up a website. It doesn’t take millions.


#92

Coos Bay would be too pricey for me, unless there was a waivier of law so i could stay in the seastead incubator while assembling the boat. But they are on the wrong coast for me anyhow. I was thinking TSI could lease a 10 acre piece of forest land, pulpwood, for next to nothing, or a warehouse somewhere with some bare rights to existing dock and launch ramp/crane. Somewhere boat materials can be delivered, assembled, trailered to water. I’d need a place i can leave the car and truck, until i could be on the water and change my transportation arrangements, and i figure this is probably a common situation. Who knows, maybe small marine industries would develop in the incubator and pay enough rent to renew the land lease. There’s so much that can be done from zero, which is where we are now.

I woke at 10pm and was running the bandsaw upstairs from midnite until 9am, because it was cooler at the time. Still came downstairs in the air conditioning to talk here, because even with a fan on me i was sweating. I am one of those people who DO things.


(Larry G) #93

My point being that there are a number of places with access to the ocean, where STI could lease or purchase a facility (crowd fund it) and make it available for reasonable fees or with grants of assistance to people who are building prototypes. There are lots of places on the Mississippi River, on the gulf coast, the east coast, west coast. If STI had a satellite office in these places to assist with techniques and networking, it would be a truly crowd-sourced effort very much in line with libertarian principles of voluntary cooperation.

Not everybody’s budget can be accommodated. People still have to have some resources, but this would be a more efficient use of STI resources in conjunction with individual resources. Coos Bay area is pretty damn cheap, if you’re not looking for short term tourist accommodations on the beach. But again, there are plenty of others on the Northern California, Oregon, and Washington coast.

There’s already marine industry in these places. People would have access to boat building supplies and locations, and experience. They would have access to boat ramps, docks, slips, etc.

At the very least, if they want to promote the knowledge, get subscription access to quality research repositories available to STI members-at-large, even if they charge a nominal fee. I am unwilling to directly purchase access to these because they cost a LOT if you are not associated with an educational organizational and are generally cost prohibitive to individuals.


#94

Agreed. As the oldest of 9 that my mother had, 2nd oldest of 13 in a his/hers/theirs family, with a 13th sibling from my dad and stepmother, I am continually dumbfounded at just how stupid my siblings are. Don’t get me started on my daughter and step-kids…, but, my Daddy was a multi-talented, hardworking man, as was his Daddy. When my parents needed a pickup load of firewood, they called me, or paid someone else to deliver it. As the ‘step’son, I never expected a handout, and only ever asked for a hand up. My youngest siblings, even the married one, are still dependent on my stepfathers’ handouts, while I’ve been through homelessness and all sorts of ordeals. My great grandfathers were a couple of truckers, an oilfield and mining hand, and one self-made banker.

If my concept ever gets built, it will be because I built the very infrastructure necessary, to build the thing, and survived long enough to build it. One great-grandfather designed a technique for sheathing pipe in cement, in a diner napkin, that is still in use. Spin-offs include the system they pump drilling mud with, such as used at Deepwater Horizon.

I have yet to see the miracle of ‘self-healing’ cement/concrete. If there’s a suitable, cost-effective geopolymer, I would prefer to use that. Adding a heated, curing stage is just one more section of a device that has never been built. Said device will have to work, almost from the get-go, in deeper water, simply due to the way it functions. I’ll need to build a pair of small barges, not just for the equipment, but the supplies to make the structure, as well. During the manufacture of my 'stead, they’ll be connected, thus my need for the means to connect and disconnect them. If any single step fails, the whole thing fails. Once the hull is complete, and afloat, I can tow it into a disused bay, or estuary, for outfitting. Nice thing is, there are plenty of abandoned oil-rigs in the GoM, to use as piers to tie-off to, in water deep enough to make a nearly 200 ft vertical, monolithic reinforced-cement/geopolymer cylinder.

I fully admit, there is no single part of my concept that is solely my idea, other than the interacting combination. It’s an amalgam of ideas that should work, from the way it goes together, to the way it functions, afterward. Hell, the basic method I expect to use to splice the FRTP rebar was invented by Alexander Graham Bell… Something I picked up as a kid, and have used in auto-repair, in farming, and even for the hot-wire fence on my dog-pen, right now.


(.) #95

I might put it a bit differently. I agree with most of it.
Probably it is the education system too. For example there is no finances thought
in high school. In the USA after a person finishes high school makes financial decisions
without any knowledge.

Most people do not know much about agriculture, but everyone wants to eat.
People want to eat cooked meals. How do you get food? Buy it.
Though, there is another way: providence. Food grows. How to grow it?

I have never grown food in large enough quantity to completely feed myself.

If a farmer, who grows food for others, does not have enough to eat, that is a discrepancy.
Similarly, if a healthcare worker cannot afford health insurance from the salary received,
that is a discrepancy too.

It is some kind of ignorance: every one eats but few people know about food production.
Everyone uses the bathroom, but very few know about sanitation systems.
Most people just know how to flush, and that is good, but anything beyond is a mystery.

New ideas are frowned upon. So that is human nature. Like lemmings into shiny metal boxes,
there it goes the suicidal race.


(.) #96

Seasteading could be the ultimate off the grid experience.
Knowledge is necessary. Hands on experience is inevitable.

First, have to build something that floats. Not easy because of liability, and
the negative perceptions.

Change is inevitable.


#97

@thebastidge,

It is what it is… Personally I didn’t expected a hand out from TSI or for them to get involved in building something but I was hoping of them to play a strong catalyst role in getting all those people with the will (and cash in hand) to get involved in building something under the TSI umbrella. And there were a bunch of us here in the beginning, ready to go,…

But it didn’t happen and those times and people are gone now and the seasteading momentum has died out now.


(.) #98

I see the point. I do not expect TSI to hand out anything.


(Larry G) #99

Well, things sometimes get done because of a groundswell of will (lunar space race) and sometimes simply because individuals start doing it.

STI may well be the NASA of sea colonization: distracting attention, effort, and resources from the private sphere and ultimately killing the capability to do anything but a remote photo safari of the planets.

But there’s still hope: the private sphere is building real life, no bullshit space ships now. 30 years later than it should have happened, it’s still happening.


#100

So? There is no parallel between Space X and seasteading…And one private individual (or corporation) thinking they are building a “seastead” while in fact just building a live aboard (or a marine business).


(Larry G) #101

I accept that you don’t see one.

[quote=“octavian, post:100, topic:240”]
And one private individual (or corporation) thinking they are building a “seastead” while in fact just building a live aboard (or a marine business).[/quote]

Depends on how rigid the definition of Seastead is. Personally, I don’t concern myself overly with definitions of things that don’t affect function. A homestead vs a farm- what’s the difference? A village vs a town? A town vs a city?

A place where people live on the ocean outside of close, tight jurisdiction. Nomadic groups of people living on the ocean outside of close, tight jurisdiction. A group of people living on a boat outside of close, tight jurisdiction .

What’s the difference? Is the distinction worth arguing over?