Follow the money


(bill mapezzi) #123

not that I cant get $10,000 together or even easier $2000 for a 1/5 scale model that would actually fit on a single truckload …just the motivation factor is infinitely less with a universe of “1”.


(noboxes) #124

I believe that is the problem with a normal marina being friendly to seasteading : there’s just one of me asking for it, and you cannot put your kids thru college based on what i can pay.


(bill mapezzi) #125

I don’t think it is that hard of a sell as long as nobody but the “tourists” need AC


(Torrey Jones) #126

I think that this may simply be an opportunity for the SeaSteading to earn income through eco-tourism and the like. You have to have some kind of success or business and investors will not invest in your steading. If you really do mean it as a literal form of homesteading at sea, then you’re likely to never get any investors, and it all has to come from out of pocket or some sort of crowdfunding/internet funding, like SV Seeker is doing on YouTube. That has it’s own inherent problems associated with it. Most people can’t be successful Homesteaders, 5 miles outside of town.

If, however, you do have a steady stream of vacationers, you’ve got a lot of money coming in to your micro community, and at least a small and fairly stable local economy to support those vacationers. Instead of farming plants, you’re farming tourists. That bringing in of money will attract businesses that aren’t owned by you, and that also means actual residents beyond just you, your family, and your employees.


(noboxes) #127

Sure it is: number 1 issue is the marina won’t be responcible for the cars and trucks of all those people renting spaces on your floating tires.

I build with steel, not tires, but roughly speaking, i can weld up a 6ft dia pontoon 25ft long for $2500 (not including pointy ends, or the bulkheads (design, count, and placement determined by internal storage requirements)). It will hold up right at 48,000 lbs before going under… use two, call it 48,000 lbs at 50% per pair of tubes, gang them up for more capacity, add pointy ends if you wanna move it. Using 6 as a trimaran gives you a 40x70 (with the pointy ends) holding 70 tons on deck. But i have no one who wants it, and no place to launch it.


(bill mapezzi) #128

Well they are cylinders for crying out loud, you can’t find somewhere to roll into the water? Bring three of them, one you can donate for a septic/natual gas digester so that you can dock the other two alongside (for free), one as a sales model and one to live in.


(noboxes) #129

Investors will kill real seasteading. If they seek 50% ROI first year, and each year thereafter, and they put in $100k, they will expect to pocket $50k each and every year after that for eternity. You will never get rid of them or the financial drain. I cannot imagine a seasteader willing to suffer that.


(noboxes) #130

To where???


(bill mapezzi) #131

Well, tacitly there is one investor with $37,500 floating around…maybe there are a others in Texas who want to run a “parking lot” on South Padre island I think I saw an empty lot there (1/4 acre for 100 grand) good enough for 60 or so cars. Initially a certain 1400ft club yacht cannot offer parking but could subsidize free parking for its members ($15/month minimum one month (to “soak” the tourist users) to paddle ashore (25 lbs kayak) near to their car (or swim 50 yards). If the “investor” financed the lot purchase at like 6 or 8% interest…that’s well over 50% ROI maybe over 200%. At a later date a large drawbridge could feasibly be added that allowed parking onboard.


(bill mapezzi) #132

noboxes
17m

Bring three of them

To where???

To the club yacht…Don’t tell me you didn’t read what you respond to- south Texas, Laguna Madre…50 yards or so off the inland shore line. I’m “reserving” your spot on the “board” as Sanitary Commander - 1% of gross club revenues. You can hire a part time resident for 33% of that. just bring at least one 5000 gallon tank.


(noboxes) #133

I don’t see your math working on that one. I’ll agree 60 average cars can park on 1/4 acre, the math works on that. But 60 cars each paying $15 each month is only $10.8k per year, 10 year payback on the $100k lot. I don’t see the average greedy investor doing that. It’s only half the money needed to pay the entry level security guard for the lot.

On the other paw, $15/mo is nothing when i run into marinas charging $300/mo for a space to park the tow truck and trailer, and that’s on top of the boat berthing charges.


(noboxes) #134

I am not signing up to handle unknown qtys of human poo, for unknown income. You have zero customers now, and no sanitary sewer system to use a tank on. I didn’t see mention of who is going to handle pumpouts either.


(bill mapezzi) #135

I’m guessing…but I’m pretty sure it over 50%, and maybe even 200% considering those that don’t stay the full month. probable I’m not using the “correct” ROI but say 1.5 % property tax and 6% interest only as the only expenses… 7500/year vs 10,800 income (I said subsidize… maybe another $5/month membership dues are needed). parking lot is self serve. I don’t know if there would be any cost to the investor with good credit. It’s like a $6900 yearly award for having credit.


(bill mapezzi) #136

everyone doesn’t need a car anyways…maybe the club could own 20 cars 100 scooters, 60 bicycles, and 30 longboards and 30 pairs of roller blades parked on the lot.


(Torrey Jones) #137

I can certainly see an investor asking for that if you’ve got a garbage business plan, or no plan at all, but if an investor actually made such an offer to a legitimate business, they’d think he was joking and walk out on him. Those kinds of returns are unrealistic under any circumstances, and investors who are serious about investing know that. You seriously need to re-examine your understanding of investment activities.


(Torrey Jones) #138

“Car” I think will wind up being subjective in many ways. You don’t use a regular car to get around inside a marina, you use the golf-cart things or maybe a segway like scooter. Realistic and green, wins all around.


(bill mapezzi) #139

Well on the described above “club yacht” $20 yearly registration (you CAN"T refer to it as anything else- current regulations insist…) I’m imagining the transportation to visit neighbors is either walking or paddling Maybe not even paddling, there is an overhead 18" polyester web you can just grab with you hands and traverse any “channels”. about two thirds of the area is not blocked off with floating “lots”. Not sure if its worth it to solidify it all for moving vehicles…maybe some wooden pallets and “astroturf”.


(Larry G) #140

BUT; agritourism is supporting the renaissance of the small farmer in North America and Europe. Don’t dismiss ideas that support seasteading in an “environment” or “ecosystem” of related activities.

A CSA Share doesn’t make you a farmer, true. But it puts you in direct contact with your farmer and gives you an insight and interest into the system that produces your food. It means you visit that farm, and have an enduring relationship with it. It makes living on that farm practical for the farmer (most of whom still have/need off-farm income).


#141

Unless you’re a ghost or a machine, you have to eat, until there’s an affordable and ready supply of food grown local to these floating condos, it will remain a playground for the wealthy.

Farming, whether in a dirt field, or at SWA, is going to be the source for most of that food. Bring it in adding transport fees, or but it ‘right here’…

I’ve documented and proposed multiple approaches in this forum. Last one I actively sought, I dropped over Fukushima, I was already talking with a Canadian university over permits for studies and collaborating on species selection for IMTA.


(Mark Stephan) #142

I agree. It is definitely doable on a limited/small scale niche basis. And then once the concept is proven, technology is solid, management team (both operational and strategic) is in place, then we can investigate expansion to larger “colonies”