Follow the money


(bill mapezzi) #102

Ok I was just trying to stay “on channel”, Otherwise I might just accidentally convince myself to go recruit some SSI headcases to help me collect tires.


(.) #103

The tsunami waves might be a real concern. Hopefully those would pass under the
structure, because of the long wavelength. Small boats might be necessary to get away
from the structure, and may be early alarm system would proof useful.

There are some other waves, such as sub-surface waves at the pycnocline interface.
https://youtu.be/TxdiU3LJlZ8


(bill mapezzi) #104

polyurethane foam is cheaper in 55 gal drums from china than gallon kits of X-40 here in the usa like 20% of cost. Gallon kits are like $80/gallon last time i checked. plastic bottles are great if you can get them whole with caps by the truckload somewhere. Maybe make your own caps with a small bit of polyurethane.Besides the cost though,they soak water. And the lighter you go ,with 125 times expansion for instance, the more they soak. x-40 weighs abot 20 lbs/ft3 when soaked over time. X-125 barely floats. Tey are good for emergency floation but they are open cell and will soak water over time (a lot). For it to act as designed over a long time then you have to expand it (with as many empty bottles as you can) inside of a plastic tube and use a long straw/nozzle to apply it evenly all through the inside of the plastic bag.This is ok if you want to spend another 10-15 minute per tire X 100,000. For me I go with the rubber liner even if I had to put a solid thin plate every 16 tires or so. Two people could line up, strap, and wrap 84 tires in 45 minutes… .


(.) #105

You are probably right. I do not have those numbers yet.
I did buy a gallon kit from Home Depot. I had to order it, and I picked it up in the store.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Secure-Set-1-Gal-Concrete-Alternative-High-Density-Polyurethane-Post-Setting-Foam-White-5-Post-Kit-SS-4-10/206497548?MERCH=REC--PIPHorizontal2_rr--205671519--206497548--N

I think it was somewhere $50.
All of those ideas of yours seem to be good at this time.
I meant this a nice way: you know, I speak English goodly.


(noboxes) #106

Please tell us how much solid foam that made for you!


(.) #107

The plan:

I am planning to get one of the semi truck tires, I found, and drill holes at the bead.
The bead is where the tire is attached to the wheel. No wheel in this tire.

And I am planning to pull the side walls close to each other and tie it shut with zipties.
They will probably not shut completely, and I am planning to spray a can of Home Depot
spray can insulation foam inside. I will wait a day or two, and take it to the ocean to
see how it floats.

Pictures later.


(noboxes) #108

Huge problem : zipties are nylon, and the sunlight will rot them by the end of summer.


#109

Truck tires can have as much as 218 liters volume. Might expect to need 7-10 cans of spray foam.

Also, you may get it to expand better by spritzing the inside of the tire with water.

Jeff Frusha


(bill mapezzi) #110

1 16 oz can? It will float but if you submerge it and get most of the air bubbles out 40-60 lbs of iron will sink it.


(Mark Stephan) #111

Late to the party :slight_smile:

But I think it’s a complex mix of potential financing based on the direction you take. Could you raise funds through crypto or via kickstarter? Potentially. But with the hundreds (thousands?) of cryptocurriencies out there and a lack of momentum, you would have to have something with some history, personnel, backing, etc. before you could make traction there. If you had Musk sponsoring the program you’d be golden. Or if you have a pilot project in place you could get additional financing based on the team, either through a marketing/publicity push and kickstarter-ish funding or via other means.

It is a chicken/egg situation. If you don’t have the pilot in the water, you have to rely on the pretty pictures to try and gain funding. To get the pilot in the water, you need some funding…

That being said, I do appreciate a pivot approach where you start a business in a related industry and pivot onto the water. Could have potential there.

As was previously stated as well, there just isn’t enough incentive or reasons for leaving land yet (especially in the US). Other countries have more incentive, but lack the funds… There are some technologies such as remote work, etc. that allows for it, but it’s a serious commitment and without the foundation laid people won’t commit to uproot their families. And that’s not enough.

Which comes full circle again to have a sponsor with some bucks to get it started. It took Thiel to get the Seasteading Institute to get launched…


(Wilfried Ellmer) #113

context : seasteading caribbean

@MarkStephan | Mark nice to see that you are still following these forums as silent listener.
@Elwar |
@Matias |

I would like to talk to the three of you in this context…

Kindest Regards

Wilfried Ellmer


(Wilfried Ellmer) #114

Interesting postulate… what about

ibiza floating clubbing platform

cholon floating homes caribbean

…enough incentive ?


(Mark Stephan) #115

I’m specifically talking about families moving to the sea to form a community. In that case, there’d have to be infrastructure in place before many would consider selling their home and moving. As you rightly point out, I think there are plenty of opportunities for niche businesses. It’s likely the means for gaining a foothold as well. A niche business (club, medical offshore, etc.) creates the business and creates the experience through which other opportunities could be investigated.


(Matias Volco) #116

I believe there is potential exactly there and would also

@MarkStephan
@Elwar |
[@ellmer


(Mark Stephan) #117

Happy to chat and rekindle the friendship Wil :slight_smile:
We can chat via email and find a time that works.


#118

I do agree with you that living land permanently (“full time” seasteading), it’s a tough choice, and not “quite there” for the masses.

BUT “part time” seasteading it’s feasible. Lets imagine a seastead conceived and operated as a time share floating real estate.

Let’s say (for the purpose of doing the math), a “small” seastead, 10 residences (650 sq. ft each) + public-commercial spaces, all for around $650K, turn key. Very doable.

10 x 52 weeks= 520 timeshare. $1250.00/each. I’ll buy 30 timeshares tomorrow… “Live” on 8 (2 month vacation time) and rent 22 (x 7 days) for $200/day = $23,000.00 NET PROFIT/year.

That’s 61% ROI!!! Follow the money,…

Even if not operated as a “can resell your timeshares to the public” floating resort, it does make a solid dollars & sense in order to achieve a decent critical seasteading mass, without the need for “big money investors”.

Also, my view is that people don’t know seasteading and even if explained to them, chances are that 95% of them won’t care much about it,… But people DO understand, and DO spend A LOT on “seasteading related” activities. Taking a 7 day cruise to the Bahamas. Renting a boat for fishing or just to hang out on the water. Renting a houseboat or a moored boat on Airbnb for a “unique” (and cheaper) vacation in the Florida Keys, or elsewhere, etc.

Maybe we should stop selling seasteading as a concept and just sell what people want on the water (to spend money on).


(noboxes) #119

Well, someone suggested a collective of private individuals dragging dockspace to the Cay Sal Bank to offer benefits to the visitors there. Iirc, someone was laughed at.


#120

If seasteading is living at sea and ‘homesteading’ at sea, then vacation travel is only related by people that are seasteading going on vacation.

A vacation timeshare on a farm does not make anyone a farmer. Staying at a B&B doesn’t make you a resident, either.


(bill mapezzi) #121

$37,500,00 ?!! done deal. Laguna Madre, south Texas. The ROI is 70% 100% guarantee. The income is based just like you say on “time share”. The market is driven by 3 groups, somewhat overlapping but sharing various degrees of 3 distinct motivations.

The “tourists” (spring breakers, sport fishermen, curiosity lookie lues). These group is interested in cut rate temporary housing - $15/night, $90/week type of deal. Large “deposit” no room service, no parking but with various small boat rentals (club donation STRONGLY EMPHASIZED available). They rent/charter the unoccupied units from other club members/investors/ residents with multiple “units”.

The second group is long term housing for working class residents who work in the vicinity (commuters). These may or may not have families and can fit out their “homes” at whatever level of expense they choose No building code, just inexpensive “lots” - 30 x 80 tire pontoons with flexible concrete decks. As club members they pay dues $360 quarterly in addition to making “layaway payments” on their $24,000 lots. 30 year financing at 9.9% interest ZERO CREDIT CHECK, ID may not even be required as the “lots” are physically fixed (inside the club “property”). easements are allowed to remove outside of club property once a minimum of $8,000 (for a bunch of free used tires and a few hundred dollars of polyester strap) equity has been established. As long as quarterly dues remain current they are welcome to run back to mama anytime they want to finish paying. Extreme discipline cases can be terminated at have their “lot” removed by paying a $3,500.00 lift fee, going to court, or stealing the “lot” on record.

The third group is the club “officers”. I’m in the third group, anyone with $37,500 is welcome to be the Inaugural “Admiral”. Other officer positions can be filled open to the public - ideally “liveaboard” types interested in developing aquaculture/ charter fishing expeditions/ and future “clubs” , with no hangups as to exploiting landlubber mentality or implementing creative “club policy”. I got only one “rule” - The Captain or designated Captain has to be aboard 24/7 (probably a second and third mandatory crew position also must be manned)

I will be Captain/Pirate because I will build the original “base” - 5 structural RINGS (1) 400 foot diameter, two approx 300ft diameter and 2 approx 150ft diameter. These are all single “strings” of tires “tubes” brought together into a tight circle with a webbing of strap across the ring …as such the tension in the webbing will give the necessary “strength” to hold the circle form. Lined up together, small,med,large,med,small and bound along the sides by two additional tire tubes 1500ft long on either side will give the steady shape of 1400foot ellipsoid ship, capable of “navigating slowly” with its twin bow/stern 360 degree 7 hsp “thrusters”, and allow anchoring with using dozens of recreational sized anchors (heavy rocks tied to rebar). It is “near” time to start doing rather than postulating.

“rough number scribblings” - 10 acres - floating marina- 5000 used tires, a couple thousand dollars of polyester lashings,less than a ton of plastic bottles, 40 sacks portland cement, 1600 cubic feet of loose fill polystyrene (the bottles fill the bottom half of a tire, the loose fill goes between the bottles and the air-crete locks it in place). should be 350,000 lbs of positive buoyancy $20 recreational vessel registration, 500 gallons diesel, three 5,000 watt generators, 2 electric motors/gear reduction/shafts/48" PVC surface piercing props and a temporary clubhouse (old single wide mobile home). maybe $10 thousand total including significant “club” advertisements. This is not going to make “bar passages” (unless all club officers are aboard and all residents left temporarily outside the marina) but will provide liveaboard yacht facilities/ 100 sheltered “lots”, 3000 feet of unofficial dock space, and a club house (needs work - I was thinking the whole front 150ft diameter ring and extended a bit toward the bow 90% bamboo construction (borax treated - no creosote). can easily get 100 full memberships and up to 100 temporary memberships at $120.00/ month. along with the sales of 100 “lots” - $44,000 per month. (during “springbreak” $15,000/day). Don’t need too many other “officers” but the old saying applies directly to myself quite accurately - a % of something is better than 100% of nothing…


(noboxes) #122

Why is it that right now, that is what you have?