Follow the money

(noboxes) #21

It is as if no one learns from history. Every president who comes to power in the usa undoes something the previous president did. And no letter of intent is a letter to progress, or to complete. No government contract involving money in the usa is ever valid, there is always more money involved. Near as i can tell, the Memo Of Understanding was like “we understand you will do surveys, like looking around, and it’s ok to look around, like any tourist does”. The government of French Polynesia doesn’t own the islands it’s on, France does, and if TSI pushed France, France will simply arrest and deport them.

(Chad Elwartowski) #22

Hopefully as of tomorrow this will be more clear (the first round of elections ends tonight). We have been staying low key so that the seastead doesn’t become an election time issue.

But the fake news article that says “French Polynesia” pulled out of the agreement is like saying “America” doesn’t like the color green.

A single mayor of one of the many locations (one island of 118 islands) was politically pressured into going onto TV to say “I didn’t sign anything, it’s not a binding contract!” after his challenger implied that he wanted a bunch of billionaire Silicon Valley types to come live in their lagoon and prevent the locals from fishing.

I am actually happy that that mayor came out with that message because it means his location is now off of the list. I didn’t like that location, far too much local drug activity and young hooligans that just sit on street corners protecting their territory. One thing I feared was that creeping onto the seastead causing problems.

The other locations are so awesome, I am very excited about them and can’t wait to reveal them. I will personally be going to each site to take some aerial videos and photos and gather as much information as I can so we, as a community, can make an informed decision on which location to choose. We will be using the seastead crypto token (Varyon) to do the voting.

(Matias Volco) #23

I do wonder whether, for the larger public including potential investors and members of this incipient community, it was the

  • Memorandum that got traction, or
  • the real life River experiments of Bue Frontier,
  • The vision outlned by the likes of Peter Thiel or the Friedman intelletual dynasty.

or perhaps even the baseline enthusiasm for a floating world, irrespective of location and policies:

(Wilfried Ellmer) #24

@Matias | looks like there are 810 silent listeners here - copying the ideas presented in these threads…this is basicly a mirror what you have designed and published over the years…

context | google: “light honeycomb truss bubble cluster

Copy is a kind of reverence…so feel flattered…New-VENICE™ is surging based on your ideas and designs…


That’s quite interesting. I was living under the impression that the location would be the Bora Bora lagoon…

Also, what if that decision based on a “popular” vote, rather then being based on factual economics-marine-social-political etc. realities “on location”, is flawed,… big time?

Democracy works fine with maritime ventures only up to a certain point…

(Bob LLewellyn) #26

In the movie ‘MoneyBall’, Billy Bean understood that to win the pennant from a much bigger and better financed New York Yankees and Boston, he had to find a different path. He turned to math to get the right players to be able to compete against formidable odds. That’s what we need, a new idea, a new way that we haven’t thought of yet.

We have a lot of good minds on this site, let’s try to figure this one out. Any thoughts?



If in the multi million dollar range, I personally think that the Blue Frontier seasteading model worked pretty good so far, (of course, pending approval of their MOU with French Polynesia).

Therefore, worth “replicating” (with the necessary adjustments) on a different location like Cay Sal, Belize, etc.

Other than that, a smaller seasteading operation (for, or not for profit) can be started in any territorial waters of any nation by following their legislative-permitting process, if any.

Overall, SHOW THEM THE MONEY to be “parked” in their backyard and they will ALL say YES…

Case in study, Marinea, it’s a no brainer to me. For now, the bulk of revenues NEEDED FOR SUSTAINABILITY will be derived from exploiting the rich maritime resources in Cay Sal, NOT from tourism-hospitality-services offered 50 nm offshore. That’s residual revenue.

Give “me” a Bahamian commercial fishing license (including lobster, conch, shrimp, aquaculture), permits to float, anchor and operate my facility-seastead in Cay Sal and “you” will get a cut.

Can’t get more basic than this,…

(noboxes) #28

If there was an informal group of people who moved between Bermuda, one of the two towers off S Carolina, Bahamas, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Fla Keys, and darned near anywhere else, to established informal personal (not $million business) locations, as legal tourists in each location, who just happened to meet and anchor in the same place, it just might be difficult to overstay one’s welcome anywhere, and there’s no unusual government involvement anywhere.

I would have a problem with making money by killing off and selling the local wildlife, but i have no problem with farming in the international waters, tended by people traveling between the favorite anchoring spots in different countries.

(Larry G) #29

If you can’t bring the cost of participation down to the median-to-high value home, minus the accoutrement of modern living typically embodied in 2-3 automobiles, lawn motors, motorcycles, ATV and other status-seeking play toys that the average North American family indulges in, and get the convenience level minimally up to the average of remote small towns in the outback of Australia, or Alaskan/Canadian bush, then you won’t see much participation.

15 million dollar start-up costs will not work, for a long time (if ever) to popularize such an extreme lifestyle change.

An very viable alternative to fishing for a living, is providing value-added services to fishermen. Ice/freezing, drying, packing/canning, collecting and trans-shipping are all value-adds that could be offered to existing industry in places like Cay Sal. the copra trade offers interesting historical lessons, and was mostly made noncompetitive by government price protections by Pacific Island governments attempting to maintain tribal social structures and tribal economics in a global market where individuals don’t have to be a less-important unit of a family/tribal structure, to be disposed of as the elders deem wise.

(.) #30

The new idea; well , I do not know.
To me it is a new idea to do the ring weaving. Tires are free right now.
Later there can be a payment for picking up the tires. That is a new idea for me, to be payed for
getting the building materials.

Right now, in the state of California, it is legal to transport 9 waste tires at a time.
For one individual it is 9 tires, for another individual with another vehicle an other 9 tires.
That is 18 tires.

9 tires can be picked up and transported to a backyard.
A 22’ McGregor motor sailer in the backyard might work. The tires can be cut to rings in the
backyard, the rings can be loaded into the motor sailer, that is on a trailer, in the back yard.
Then the motor sailer can be transported to the ocean, on the trailer, and launched.

It can sail out 25 miles beyond territorial waters and contiguous zone. There; the rings can be
assembled into a ring woven structure. If more than one person is willing to do that, and
cooperation can be achieved, multiples of 9 tire loads can be done at the same time.

No license necessary to this point. Within the state, all is going according the rules and
regulations. The assembly site is outside of the state.

When that is going well, the activity can be stepped up to money making venture, by obtaining
necessary licenses and permits to pickup, store, transport and reuse the tires in the recycled form.
Ringupcycle; ring band weaving. The money is payed at the time of the pickup of the tires
by waste tire generators.

A tire hauler permit requires a $10 000 bond, a bond can be obtained, with good credit about
1-5% of the value of the bond, so $100- $500. Vehicles on land and sea are necessary to
transport the tires and rings. I have a land vehicle, a van, and I am planning to get a trailer for it.
Sooner or later, I am planning to get a boat too.

The low cost start up can be at the point of 9 tires, a van and a motor sailor.
On craigslist a usable McGregor 22’ with a trailer is about $1000-$2000. It is doable.

And if it gets to the Alice’s Restaurant level, where, one, two, three people, or groups are
doing it, well, than that is a movement.

Just a tought.

(noboxes) #31

You just wrote off all those people who are not financially well off to qualify for the mythical “average”. In some states, the average person lives in a older trailer, has one working old car and one not working car, five kids, minimum wage job, etc etc. They cannot afford going to a yacht sales marina and buying anything but bait, to fry up as dinner. They are looking for “better”, not “gold at the end of the rainbow”.

(.) #32

And then, this place is for just fantasy anyways.

(Chad Elwartowski) #33

I put out the suggestion to the team, they like it but nothing concrete has been discussed.

My suggestion was that we do a vote, akin to the Free State Project choosing New Hampshire, to get the sentiment of the varyon holders of where they would like the pilot project (from a list of vetted locations). Blue Frontiers would ultimately make the final decision but if one or two locations had overwhelming support then it would be likely to steer them toward that site.


It does make sense.

Overall, since the stationary seasteading proposition equates to permanently living on the hook, the rule of thumb would be to:

  1. Be in a protected location (from the elements).

  2. Be close to supplies.

#1 it’s a must no matter what, and shouldn’t be debatable, IMHO.

#2 it’s relative to the size of one’s wallet (varyon or otherwise :blush: )


71% of the World’s population is living off $10 or less a day…

You too just wrote off all those people who are not financially well off to qualify for the mythical “average”.

(noboxes) #36

The post i was replying to is:

therefor i was restricting my area to what he said.


And I was expanding …

(Wilfried Ellmer) #38

On the question of “reasonable pricing” for a floating real estate venture our group has settled for the “1/3 formula”.

We offer independent floating homes at 1/3 the price of an average home in the United States and go for the same square footage average homes in the US have... (means 2600 square feet at USD 98K ) address the "english speaking" issue we offer "assisted living" (grocery supply, medic, etc) in english language by a dedicated administration. The car gets replaced by a boat. So we are basicly going to compete with the "center area" of the existing real estate market (suburban average homes) and we go for a paradigm shift ...

• Floating Homes more economic than land based homes. (more bang for the buck)

• Location is 3-20min (several development areas) in boat from a mayor shore city center with international direct flight connections (Cartagena de Indias)...

• That is “closer to the city” than most existing “suburban housing” is located.

• It has “better views from the porch” than most suburban housing has.

• To speak in realtor terms - “pulling the comps” - the floating real estate development wins a compare with land real estate (in the same area) on every single level of compare. ( price, size, view, style, neighborhood, city distance, connections, infrastructure…)

Seasteading definitly comes in many colors and tastes - this is our "default formula" for "massive aquatic housing developments"... we have specialty developments too - but that is for another thread...

(noboxes) #39

If someone 25 years old buys a houseboat from you, you will supply this assisted living free of charge for the next 55 years, to their expected lifetime of age 80?

Wow, that is a “lot of bang for the bugs”, as you say. By the way, i am not acquainted with the bugs of Columbia, what bugs are involved? Are they dangerous? Is someone shooting directly at the bugs? How does the banging affect the waterproofing? Will this noise bother the neighbors? Who is responcible for removing the dead bugs? Does this occur often? Do you take full responcibility for the existing permits required, and any that become required, for the next 55 years?

(Larry G) #40

No, I just said you won’t see middle class adoption of the lifestyle until you can meet at least that bar. Once there are places that provide infrastructure, then ‘trailer parks’ can form around it.

On the other hand, I grew up in a trailer park and have no desire to live there again or promote the growth of such communities. It’s not a good model, and certainly something better can be devised to take its place economically. The people living the lifestyle you describe are mostly there because of culture, and choices. Until they decide to change those choices and their cultural outlook, and simultaneously opportunity exists to do so, nothing changes there.