Exit on Moral Grounds


In PM, and publicly in the forum, the lack of response from @ellmer over his personal attack concerning my health and integrity, the lack of response from the adminins @thebastidge and @Elwar; over this and @ellmer’s false claim of calumny, whole his attack was clearly such.

I hereby call it to the attention of @RandolphHencken and @joequirk

If this forum will stand for such, then I refuse to further participate.

I have watched as every actively participating female was hounded out of here, regardless of my own efforts at inclusion, to expand not only the conversation, but the conceptual base of knowledge.

I refuse to be attacked, or personally, publicly humiliated on personal medical disabilities, accused of lying, of maligning a member, when I clearly made an attempt to bring @ellmer into a conversation as a person with applicable experience.

I have spent nearly a decade researching and putting ideas and sound science into this forum. I have also shown places where false, or misleading information was posted.

Admittedly, it has gotten contentious at times. I apologized profusely when found in error, yet, evidentially Wil Ellmer gets to have his way. Granted, he deleted the body of his post, but I documented his own public claim as to having his second submarine fail, not by his own fault, but by permissions denied, due to the interference of the international war on drugs.

With that, I bid you all farewell, fair winds and following seas.

Jeff Frusha
Kingsbury, Texas

(Kim Cowdroy) #2

Happy Christmas on a sad day.

J.L. you have been outstanding in your commentary, analysis and information provided, over a long period of time.

I really don’t know why you let him get under your skin.

But I do think that for those who are to eventually succeed at true seasteading on the open seas, upsetting the existing order, it is going to take much thicker skins than that.


Admins took the conversation to messages, then failed to respond, or rebuke @ellmer for his attack, or false claim.

I see that as tacitly deciding, despite the facts, that they have a preference for Wil and his misrepresentations.

Thicker skin? Thicker than what? Nobody should EVER be publicly humiliated for medical conditions, yet Wil Ellmer was allowed to merely delete and maintain a false public charge of calumny.

I stand on that moral high ground.

(Kim Cowdroy) #4

I appreciate your comments and there is no question that you have the high moral ground!

Unfortunately though, that does not help the long term cause of seasteading. You would be a big loss to this forum.


There appears to be no simple way to close my account. I was disallowed by @ellmer to close my account on his forum, which led to our worst differences, and required the intervention of @joequirk and @RandolphHencken, several years ago.

Although apparently inaccessible at this time, I have downloaded a zipped archive of my posts. It refuses to unzip.

I hereby publicly request that admin close my account. @Elwar @thebastidge @joequirk @RandolphHencken

(Wilfried Ellmer) #6

I still have nothing to comment and argue with the segment poster @JL_Frusha represents.

I would very much apreciate if he would leave me out of his telenovela - as i am consistently requesting for more than a year...and keep his involvement with me at a clear CERO.
Seasteading is about opt in and opt out choices, after all... sorry but i have to opt out on this drama queen debate invitation...those who want to opt in - go ahead...and have a nice day. ... my focus is needed somewhere else...

(Bob LLewellyn) #7

Maybe what we really need is for someone to write up something about forum etiquette. This forum draws the inventor, dreamer, individualist that probably has a higher IQ. That type of person is always able to see what is wrong and what is needed to fix it. What they lack though is people skills. I know I’m guilty.

We all can see the problems that face the world and we can see how seasteading would alleviate those problems. We also can see that the idea of a seastead is too big for one person. We naturally think then that to get help, we need go to where the help is, i-e, on the forum for this idea. However, when we present our ideas to the forum, they wreck with everyone else’s ideas. Now there is natural conflict.

In addition, there are trolls that exist just to criticize others efforts. Of course the trolls think that they are not trolls because all they are doing is explaining that your ideas are stupid and all fucked up. How do you feel when some nobody tears your ideas down and thinks that you are all fucked up. The joy is gone and the gloves come off.

Some one actually accused me of sexist and aggressive remarks to a lady on the forum that I was writing to, off forum. We were able to help each other while someone else not privy to our conversation took it upon themselves to make that accusation. They made those charges out of ignorance, just as all other charges against everyone here is out of ignorance. None of us can know what is the reason for an other’s action or speech.

To start things off, that is with the text of forum etiquette, I would suggest an old book, “How to Make Friends and influence People” as a basis for our group. [https://soundcloud.com/larry-amos-jr/sets/dale-carnegie-how-to-win] While it may be difficult for us to relate to other instinctively, our intellect allows us to learn to emulate others by instruction, that is through the abstract. This link is for an audio recording, it help those of us with poor eye site, however, I’m sure you can find a pdf of it somewhere on the internet.

One more thing, for those of you who celebrate Christmas, I hope you have a very merry one.


You won’t be missing much, @JL_Frusha.

Most of the TSI threads are only full of commercials about @ellmer’s concrete sub’s that sink and bullshit ideas that don’t actually float … so no lose of valuable information there. :wink:

(Bob LLewellyn) #10

Allow me to respectfully disagree. I just ignore post that are destructive and only give energy to those that have merit in themselves. Anyone can tare-down but it takes skill and knowledge to build up. Anyone with no morals can kill but it takes a god to give life. Any moron can kill an idea but it takes someone special to give that idea life.

The concept of exiting on moral grounds is a mark of strong ideals but is it about morality? I had to exit the forum on moral grounds back when we had that pedophile wanting to get us to accept his perversion as legal on a seastead. I made the statement that I would leave if he didn’t and I left until I saw that he was finally gone.

The simple prime component to morality is the strong conviction of doing no harm. If we can accept this, then to weigh whether someone can justly be labeled immoral, one would have to prove harm. JL who is considering exiting on moral grounds, should show how he was injured by the person or persons that he claims the charge against.

If substantiated then I too would feel the need to remove my presence as a show of support for the moral issue. However, at this time, I have not seen how JL was injured buy anything written to-date so I have to ask for the proof.

Now if JL wanted to leave because he just didn’t like me, for this I would have no issue. I might be heart broken but that is just an emotional issue and it will change over time.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me. Insults hurt only when I give them weight. If I have no respect for the insulting person then his words are harmless. So if his insults hurt me, then it is I that am responsible for the hurt. I just used his words as the weapon of choice.

(noboxes) #11

I believe JL showed proof in the threads he was posting in.


As of yet, Admin has not closed my account. The body of @ellmer’s post was deleted and now shows a charge of “calumny” against me.

In response to:

Please refer to:

(Bob LLewellyn) #13

JL, you let him get to you with something like that? You don’t need a thicker skin, you need to learn some mental self defense. My favorite is marijuana, I never read this forum straight. Second, look for a witty come-back.

If Wil is making fun of you, then it is fair play to make fun of him. Try to keep it as fun though, something like, “of course Wil knows about underwater habitats, all of his structure eventually end up on the sea floor!” Sorry Wil. Now Wil isn’t hurt, he may not like me any more so I may have hurt me but Wil doesn’t give a rats ass what I think of him. He is here for business and business has no room for hurt feelings.

A forum is good for brainstorming, that’s all we do here. Throw out ideas and watch what develops. If the idea is bad, it will die on the vine, just don’t feed it. Same with other people opinions of you. Just remember, opinions are like arm pits, everyone has a couple, some stink.

I don’t think you should leave JL, I think you should look at this verbal assault as a challenge. You know something of challenges. How do you handle people with little to no people skills?


I disagree. Attacking a person as mentally defective, on basis of medical conditions, especially someone that has had to battle stroke-related dementia, coming back from that Alzheimer’s like darkness, to where I am now is not something to make light of.

I hope and pray that none of you ever faces that struggle. Without my wife and children, I would now be permanently institutionalized in that state he accused me of.

It is not humorous, it has no valor. There is no way to win such a battle. I am walking away. Y’all, I pity, you’re stuck with Wil.

I have my own forum to tend, a budding business to build, land to clear, a bus to get off-grid, etc. My plate is full.

Admins chose to ignore it, yet let his bogus calumny charge stand uncontested by any but myself. Clearly, this battle is stacked against what is right, good and just. I am not allowed to win this one, so I refuse to waste further effort on it.

(Bob LLewellyn) #15

What is the website for your project?

(noboxes) #16

Respectfully to @ForexBob , but as far as i know, TSI has not resulted in anyone actually seasteading. Or starting a business at sea. Or funding a business or a stead at sea. Or in any protected area. Or started or funded a seastead incubation site. Or, despite the word “institute” in this site’s name, presented any library of data of help to seasteading. The only useful information has been from a few people who mistakenly contributed one or two posts, and then figured out they were wasting time here, and left.

Consider Land Reclamation on the Great Meteor Seabank . this “institute” is a bigger wasteland of data than the water above that seamount. Lets toss Cay Sal Bank into this (that) discussion, has anyone associated with TSI spent a month out there documenting what it’s like to be there? NO!! There’s a man who took initiative to find a useful seamount in international waters, and what is TSI going to do with him? NOTHING!! What’s this forum going to do with him? tell him it won’t work with their pet idea, and if he persists you all will tear into him on a personal level. There’s other seamounts out there with various advantages and disadvantages, and i darned sure am not going to mention each of them on this forum.

This site hosts fanciful ideas that could get people killed if built, or ideas that would get people arrested if done, or business plans with absolutely no business research and planning.



(Larry G) #18

There is no “close account” function built into these forum packages. I can ban your account, if you like. That is the function available to me.

I remind everyone. I don’t get paid for moderating. I get no special allowances for moderating. I don’t devote my life to moderating this forum. As a well-rounded person should, I take breaks from here, do normal things like having Christmas with my family, and work at my job. I come back to 16(!) raging messages about the incident, mostly from one person.

No preference has been shown. I asked both parties ( in a private message) to stand down from the argument. One did.

If anyone wants to leave, then leave. I am done trying to persuade people to stay if all they are going to do is argue about their feelings. All you have to do is simply stop posting here. Throwing a grandstanding tantrum and insisting your account be closed… this is not a credit card account. There is nothing to close.

Grown adults should act like grown adults.


There is no simple way for me to remove ‘my’ membership in this forum. I will turn off as many notifications as I can.

Regardless of pay, the position is yours. I do not envy you that role and have said so before.

@ellmer did not face moderation for his posting a personal attack, despite the forum’s stated rules, slandering me based on unpreventable health conditions and proceeded further, in accusing me of calumny, though, by his own public post in his own forum, as documented, he said the same thing in much the same way. Yet, his false calumny charge rewriting the deletion of his original attack still stands as a post.

I have asked for redress, which has not occurred, nor has he been moderated for his attack or false accusations.

(Larry G) #20

All of your notifications are turned off. You can additionally refuse private messages if you like. You could mute Ellmer as a user so you don’t see any of his posts. If you don’ actively monitor the forum, you are as good as removed. You could send any email to a null address simply by changing your email address in your profile.

Normally, when people want to be left out of a group activity, they don’t keep showing up to that group activity. Don’t like your church group, don’t go. Don’t like your bowling team, stop going bowling with them.

Incorrect. I attempted to work out the beef between the two of you in private messages. That is moderating. I actually spent more personal time and effort on that than I should have. The result may not be what you wanted, if you wanted ‘punishment’.

I’m not here to punish people, or to improve their character. Merely to improve the amount of crap/content ratio in the forum threads as much as possible.

(Bob LLewellyn) #21

Alright Larry, now you’re going too far.