Could a Seastead be the first country to implement a Universal Basic Income?

(noboxes) #81

Did anyone ask where the money will come from to pay a “basic living” on a seastead, and how much money, and in what denomination, that will be? Or even if it is not money but goods and services, room and board?

That said, i find that the topic question shows the asker does not understand the concept of a new country.


68? Gentleman? Really?

Judging by your overall insulting to any intelligence posts, I thought that you are just a 12 year old misguided, megalomaniac teenager.

(Rüdiger Koch) #83

Indeed. All the time I hear how expensive Seasteading is and how we are running out of work.To those people: Pick one. You can’t have it both.


I am surprised this thread is still active. There is so much work to be done. I don’t understand why anyone would subsidize inaction at the sea.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #85

Actually in our group we tested the feasibility of a small floating dome structure, equivalent to a 40 square-meter apartment - on a price level of under USD 1000 in the poor man´s floating island project. | ref: poor man´s floating island |

The current situation with the poblations on the Magdalena River banks is, that they get flooded twice a year and call for government help (disaster funds) ... sumnister floating homes is just by far more economic than any alternative... I think the situation in India and Asia is similar. Instead of relocating the poblation periodically - (in tents to higher ground) just to see them return to the river banks when the water goes down and repeate the cycle ... floating homes provide a elegant permanent solution.
In fact i see no obstacle to take this as a investment and feasible business model.
Suminister a home a space of tranquility and opportunity to somebody who is in distress and speculate on the expectation that he soon will become a very productive member of your community and pay back a ROI (return on investment) that is better than the 2% per annum that the S&P markets on Wall Street will give you.
We call that business with objectives beyond pure (short sighted) money acumulation... In our days the most advanced business concepts go beyond money - just take Elon Musk he makes good money by doing things that INSPIRE people - looks like a working model to follow. Things will have to become much more "social responsible" and holistic on this is about fairness, equilibrium, respect and opportunity - not necessaryly about politics and interfere with people´s lives without their consent by forcing the arbitrary rules of a rigged sistem on them.
As investor you feel good about the fact that your money beside multiplicating reasonable and being invested in safe haven infrastructure projects - is contributing to make the planet a better place.

| things upcomming |

(.) #86

Well, well , well. Here we are again, 40 m2 apartment, and poor man’s seastead;
that is all landlubber logic. There might be other type of logic.
If I want headroom, I can stay on the deck. If I feel cold, I can drift closer to the equator.
Those are kind of nautical terms. And there are more of those, and there are probably
even more to discover.

One of the seasteader thing would be (IMHO) : “vote with your boat”

(Gerd Weiland) #87

dear sir–i can no longer reference my last message to you two days ago, in which i referred to amongst other things relating to the Ring-Weave technology in considerable detail, a sequence of humanitarian projects which i have developed for a variety of developmental aid initiatives in the form of a unique flood mitigation system in the Ganges Delta in West Bengal India as well as a sewage system for slum environments in Africa. One of these developmental aid projects employs the Ring-Weave Up-cycle System for scrap tires and plastic refuse to construct multi functional survival platforms of any shape or size which can be easily and rapidly assembled by local inhabitants with only muscle power and carpet knives and securely positioned next to every village which is endangered on a regular basis nowadays by storm surge flooding. The current situation you portrayed on the Magdalena River could be addressed in a similar manner. Indeed the application of Ring-Web scrap tire Up-cycle Technology on land for to counter act mud slides as well as the construction of secondary roads can contribute to a wide range of applications in Colombia as well. However since i cannot seem to develop a clear communication with you without an increasingly irritating and moreover clearly unqualified interference from some TSI participants i will no longer use this forum to share my knowledge in future and hope you use this last message to you personally to establish a private e-mail address by which we could perhaps continue our constructive interaction.

(noboxes) #88

That is the most dense pile of buzzwords i have ever seen.

(.) #89

Hello Mr. Weiland;
I sent an email address in TSI message.

(Matias Volco) #90

A floating town is most likely to be the First in many thiings including Universa Basic Income in a similar way as Corporate Headquarters may have a cafeteria.
What “free stuff” is already available and taken for granted in, Cities, Shopping Malls, Hotels, Central Busiiness Districts ?


If companies build their own real estate on a blank slate an entire landscape is created with the desired human infrastructure built-in. But we wont think of it as Basic Income in the same way we don’t think of mallrats as homeless.
Have you ever used the facilities of a restaurant or mall you were not patronizing? A/C or Heating while covering a distance, etc. This is more apparent and seamless in high density urban settings.


IMHO, the most universal basic income is hunter/gatherers feeding themselves. It doesn’t get much more basic than that.

(Matias Volco) #92

It is EXACTLY that Jeff!!! In fact that’s sort of what I meant by creating a new landscape, like a man-made garden of providence powered by intercontinental trade. Relationship with the material world ccould be very different, kinda like how the word “Paleo” has gained such popularity.

(noboxes) #93

I have not heard that prefix in years. How is it being used today? By who? Is it really a stand-alone word now? What’s it mean (surely not “paleolithic = Of or relating to the second period of the Stone Age (following the eolithic)”)?

(Matias Volco) #94

humans have evolved technologically so fast that the distance and distinction between caveman and properly civilized approaches a turning point. But cavemen didn’t leave in a garden of plenty, some valleys may have been more fruitful than others just like companies.


Paleo diet is a big health-kick, these days

(bill mapezzi) #96

Well a first ever seastead in California or Texas can have a defacto basic income. The most efficient family unit is the single parent with 3 children. This provides $500/month TANF and a $6000/year tax refund(minus 15% self employment tax), as well as $700/month in “food stamps”. Totaled $20,400/yr for about 6 hours of paperwork/interviews. since there is already on overabundannce of seafood available… the food stamps could be used to invest- honey, freeze dried caviar, sugar, rice, dehydrated fruit, coffee, tea…not to mention if the seastead was able to offer approved section 8 housing - another 800-1200/month…Just need a trustworthy individual or corporate entity to stockpile and invest the funds…I believe you are disqualidied from public benefits if you have more than $2000 of “assets”:. 1000pop x $20,000 x 13.6%/year x 20 years… ? 2 billion give or take? maybe 1/2 that was spent (on what I don’'t know since a running “swap meet of sea food” would produce substantially more disposable income…so 20 years at $50,000/ yr “average salary” and $1,000,000.00 upon retirement at age 38? No brainer actually. Send me the “masses”.



That’s $387/mo. Call it $12.73/DAY to feed 5 people at least 1 meal per day. Certainly not a get-rich-quick plan, or diet…

Other facts
If a child’s parent or relative gets TANF, the parent or relative must agree to:

Train for a job or look for work.
Follow child support rules.
Not quit a job.
Not abuse alcohol or drugs.
Take parenting skills classes.
Get vaccines for their child.
Make sure their child is going to school.
If you get TANF, we will tell you how you can get help following program rules.

There is strong evidence that TANF’s work requirements and block grant structure exacerbate, rather than reduce, poverty, and should not be extended to other programs.

(bill mapezzi) #98

Hey, no disagreement here. Just some “facts” you may have overlooked- I said “single” parent… there are exceptions to the “other” parent having to pay back or work- just don’t file or cooperate with child support agency, the other “requirements” are a joke( look for work- ask 10 different people at the seastead to give you a job that would reduce your benefits…guess what? “NO”. Don’t get arrested. Home school. Thank you for confirming the $290/month. As the earned income tax credit maxes out at 3 children (basically $3000,$4500, and $6000) plus the additional child tax credit - $1000, additional children are only worth $58/mo for #4 and $39/mo for #5 so its irrelevant. If you have more than 3 than just let families that are short “take care of them”. It is near about the same deal with the “food card” benefits. I checked this time instead of guessing - $649. So, 649+290 = 939 x 12=11,268 + $70000 tax refund once/year= $18,268.00 of cash or convertible to cash. And don’t bother posting anything about illegally selling food stamps. I didn’t say to, just as I did not suggest to rely on $387 per month to feed yourself and 5 children (it is not that hard if you HAD to), I said the most efficient is 3 children ( you can still have 18 or so, but you will need 6 babysitters). Do you read? Same numbers - start seasteading at 18 and retire in 20 years with cash payout of TWO MILLION DOLLARS at age 38. earn all your “spending money” from kickbacks donated from commercial fishermen. The mistake I made in 500 as opposed to 290 and 700 as opposed to 649 can be counterbalanced by getting 15% interest instead of 13.7%


Then where’s yours…? You say you have that answer, but complain of being an unemployed truck driver.

(bill mapezzi) #100

my what? my TWO MILLION? get real - just read utilizing basic comprehension actually.- do you see the date of my previous post? Has 20 years elapsed? Has the time clock even started??

It is about a practical “seastead specific(as of yet undefined except it acts as a large FAD, a substrate for seaweed and is extensive enough to effectively eliminate the wave portion of high sea states) Universal BASIC INCOME”. Only if you mistakenly count responding to your juvenile horseshit as complaining, can you determine that I am an unemployed truck driver. I am a retired father of five and expectant grandparent. I have documented proof of at least one transpacific voyage on a homebuilt yacht. I’ve been invited to take the official MENSA test. Had I been allowed(or alive) to vote I would have voted for Reagan and Kennedy, as my voting record actually stands I voted for Joe Walsh once and Alan Keyes twice. My two favorite authors are Edgar Rice Burrows and Joseph Conrad. Who are your’s Billie Jean King and Whoppi Goldberg?