Children's life


(Marcella Perrella) #1

Hi.
As a young family I am really curious about seasteading with kids. And I don’t just mean schools, hospitals and security. But also playgrounds, play groups. Activities. Like gym and clubs. I believe it is all essential for raising a healthy children. I don’t believe in school in the way it is for most people. And I’m willing to rethink and learn new ideas to raise brighter kids. What’s the thoughts about the seasteading children’s life?


(Bob LLewellyn) #2

To tell the truth, except for on-line classes, nobody has had to address that subject, well not directly. I would imagine that just about all recreation will have something to do with swimming and boat safety. I would expect Marinea’s children to know how to handle lines knots and sailing a small sleuth by age 12. How to ride a jet-ski by 15 and knows how to survive on their own by 20. This is basically what scouting is. Marinea’s athletes would be tough contenders in the Olympics with all the swimming that they would be doing.

However,libertarian communities would tend to lean more on the parents to organize something of their own and not on governmental services. We can build parks but not watch over the children. So a better question would probably be, what kind of recreations would you be willing to start? What kind of help will you need to make a seastead a good place for families to raise their children.

Parent’s raising their own children find that the reward is so much greater than the inconvenience. My son was home schooled and one year when he was as old as 7th graders, competed in a math and science competition against students from junior high schools across Pennsylvania. He beat them all and got a special Math award for his dissertation on the Gaussian-Jordan algorithm. He is well into his 30s now but I still brag about how he beat all the schools. I would have missed that, if we had not participated in his education. People are losing so much by using government schools.

OK, I have a math degree and was competent to tech that subject but the rest of them I had to do a little learning of my own. Another benefit from home schooling. Actually schools are for fish, we like hands on training.

But let me be the first to welcome you to the funny farm. We need more input from families and a woman’s perspective. With technical, we are great, but not so much in the practical every day stuff. So don’t be shy, your opinion here is probably more important than mine.
Bob


(Chad Elwartowski) #3

I think there will be a lot of activities. A seastead will likely be a tourist destination which will involve excursions for families. Though children would likely become bored with the same tours going on all the time (fishing, dolphin watching, trips to the beach, snorkling, SCUBA diving, kayaking, etc.). I agree with @ForexBob, they will be some great swimmers.

As for education, I personally look forward to learning a great deal on the seastead as an adult. I think children will be able to experience some of the greatest minds coming to give talks and enlighten all of us.

Welcome to the forums.


(Larry G) #4

Clubs as in voluntary groups with a specific interest? I don’t see the difficulty, especially in the age of ubiquitous communications technology.

Gyms are kind of a funny concept to me. I have had gym memberships, that money is always largely wasted. It doesn’t fit into my lifestyle. Now I have exercise equipment in my garage and I get quite a bit more value. But even then most of my exercise doesn’t involve a machine built to do absolutely no useful work.

It is true that purpose built space for exercise and certain physical training activity is valuable. And can be hard to come by. As a firearms trainer and personal safety trainer, I have found it so. It’s difficult to teach CPR to a group of people in a living room for example. But work space can have dual purposes. Back when communities had the majority say in how their schools were run, school buildings were just public buildings used for many community purposes. Now they’re some kind of sacred temple to separate kids from their profane parents in the holy cause of making humans into better social insects.

Meeting rooms and dining facilities and work halls can all have multiple purposes with merely the logistics of scheduling as a constraint.

Children who work alongside their parents learn many important things. For one, how to act like an adult, not like feral animals ala “Lord of the Flies” in an age-segregated artificial environment. Physical work like fishing and sailing keeps people fit. Fresh air away from cities is good for the body and soul.


#5

In addition to the above ideas, I’d expect that the seasteading kids would do a lot of experiential learning.

I think 3D printing probably will be common on seasteads … something that kids can learn now and share with other kids anywhere. Ditto for electronic technology.

Given size constraints, I expect individual sports to be more typical than larger team activities … so I think a gym will be standard fare for seasteads (for many reasons).

Great question, Marcella.


#6

I think it’ll end up with a lot more sedentary kids glued to screens.


(Marcella Perrella) #7

I see the seasteading idea covers a lot of technology and a complete new lifestyle. But I understand that if we don’t think further the daily life details we will end up living for work and forget some basics of a healthy life. The kids needs another kids to interact. I’m not talking about school, but playgrounds. And when I talk about gym and clubs I mean also activities for them not to be at home all day long. It’s not good for the kids. It’s even worse for the parents that I swear can get crazy with a toddler all day long running around the house. The society needs different activities as well as going to a movie/theater. Or at least going to a family friend Caffè. If we are not having schools the creche and activities groups are essential. Expecially for working parents. I appreciate all the responses. And all of them made me think a lot Expecially about what kind of knowledge we would like to share in teach our kids. Witch professionals will be needed in this new world?? And what the ideas we would like them to carry.


(Larry G) #8

Well, one thing that home school parents quickly discover, is that kids don’t really need the same amount of time to learn as they do in herd-schools. Individually tailored learning proceeds much faster. So you might be more concerned about the amount of free time that you have to fill for the kids, except that the answer to this was discovered a long time ago. It’s called “work” ( or sometimes “chores”). In any off-grid type of living situation, people are responsible for a lot more of their own support infrastructure and tasks. Water doesn’t just magically appear at a tap. Someone has to set up, monitor, and maintain a water purification system. Electricity doesn’t just magically come from the wall outlet. Someone has to set up, monitor, and maintain solar panels (cleaning), generators (fueling, lubricating, mechanical tune-ups,) wind power (lubricating, checking bearings, replacing bent wind vanes). Food doesn’t come from a grocery store, cleaned, wrapped in plastic, and ready to microwave. It has to be raised or caught, killed, cleaned, prepared for storage, cooked, and served.

There are LOTS of things to keep “kids” occupied, engaged in important learning and character building, and socializing with other people.

Playgrounds? Playground were invented in lieu of the farm yard and the work space because we artificially segregate people by age and hide the vital chain of supply from people these days. They only exist because people allowed themselves to be crowded too close together to perform their own vital life functions, and eventually got affluent enough to demand leisure activities to replace work activities.

In a seastead, the ocean is a playground: for swimming, diving, fishing, boating, sailing, etc. Your work spaces are a playground- kids hang around their parents in the fish market, the scuba shop, the harbormaster office, playing, learning, absorbing adult behaviour patterns. It’s more integrative, because spaces aren’t set aside for a single purpose and off-limits to other purposes and groups.


(Marcella Perrella) #9

I never meant age segregation. However I don’t see why not having safe places for kids to play around. Regarding fishing or other activities with the adults that’s a big safety concern. Mostly of under five years old doesn’t know how to swim properly or has confidence to do so on his own. And I could even manage go fishing with one toddler, but I have two under 3 years old. That makes it a pretty hard task considering that being near water on its own is already dangerous, then that’s all the fishing props.
My kids doesn’t go to school, and with that I say how hard it is being a full time mom. I chose it but some mothers can’t wait to go back to work. And I judge that it’s not for everyone this romantic idea of being with them all day long everyday. And since some people don’t believe in playgrounds theses mothers would be confined at home like lots of very sexist cultures around the world. I must remember that studies confirm that a mother lives in a constant stress compared with the one in soldiers in war. One minute is all it takes for them to invent something that might not be safe at all. And thats for this reasons that plenty of play groups are born, not just thinking about the kids but about the adult that NEEDS to have adult conversation rather than speaking only with kids all day long. This groups had saved many parents from blues or further depressions. If mental health is not taken cake before it could happen, you can end up with a sick society in the future.


(Larry G) #10

Perhaps I’m not expressing it well.

My point is that a seasteading lifestyle (anything but a mega resort) will necessarily involve an integrated lifestyle. That is, stay-at-home moms in this context means something very different. Think more like a farm/fishing village wife from 150 years ago, not like a modern socially isolated battered woman. There are many integrated tasks that one must accomplish to keep the household running- they definitely do not stay confined inside the walls of the home, isolated from social interaction.There are harvests to coordinate, market shopping to do, group production tasks that scale to village level rather than family level. Education and training (two related but distinct concepts) of children being one of these things. The “husband” role is not one where the man leaves the home at 8 am and comes home at 5pm, earning cash doing something entirely abstract and unrelated to their family life, to then pay for X and Y. The primary laborer may indeed work outside the home, but ALSO spends much more time on working in and around the home (again, like a farmer or fisherman from pre-industrial times) to maintain it, and much more in command of his or her own time and priorities than the modern corporate workforce allows for. Including family activities. This can include even high tech knowledge worker careers.

If you’ve ever been around a family-owned business, you see this. The kids are not excluded from the work spaces and the family’s economic activities. Yes, toddlers require a great deal of constant supervision. Traditionally, older kids assist in this. It’s also one of the better forms of teenage birth control- teens who have changed a lot of poopy diapers and been responsible for babies and toddlers are far less likely to be careless about saddling themselves with them outside of a committed relationship (personal experience here, as the oldest of 5 kids). Adult women with children need not be confined with the kids away from other adults. This kind of thing is an artifact of the extremely programmed & scheduled corporate employee lifestyle, not the entrepreneur and family business lifestyle. The USA shifted from primarily self-employment to primarily company-based employment around the early 1900s and a host of social ills followed.

A playground is just a word for a space. No need to put it on a pedestal like it is something unique. Humans do need some natural spaces, plant and animal life around them. It’s useful to have some area where this is a priority. But it can be a dual-purpose space, doesn’t have to be a place where only children go, only to play on merry-go-rounds, swings, and slides. In a limited resource and limited space village like a seastead, it pretty much HAS to be multi-purpose space. I’m not saying “don’t have playgrounds.” I’m saying “expand your concept of what a playground is, based upon your goals that are currently achieved by playgrounds.”


(Bob LLewellyn) #11

I would like to address this if I may, swimming is an instinct, children have it when they are born. If you take a new born and put him into water (warm) two thing will happen, he will begin to swim and if he has nursed recently, he will pee. Some what embarrassing in a public pool. However, most babies are not exposed to water until they are old and they have forgotten the instincts in favor of the emotion fear. Once the fear is gone the instincts take over and we (learn to) swim.

Homes with parks.
Individual floating homes will have some lawn. The apartment barges will have a shared lawn with recreation for children, that’s a builders decision. The builders want people to rent from them so they will add attractions to make their units stand out. But Larry’s right. Kids don’t need adults to think of things to do, they are inventive little creatures. For one thing, they can learn a lot younger than we thought. My four year old cold read the comics. Adults tend to set limits on kids that nature didn’t intend. You won’t believe this right now but kids are fun. You think they will make you old but in reality, they will keep you young.

By the time a seastead is built, your kids will be ready for it, as a mother though, you may never get quite comfortable with the whole thing.


(Larry G) #12

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/the-importance-of-the-drown-proof-technique/


(Chad Elwartowski) #13

The reality is that we will never know the real answer until something is built. We can have theories on an internet forum but until a family moves to a seastead with children we cannot be certain.

What I usually do is look to people that are already living on boats for the closest lifestyle.

There are plenty of YouTube videos of families living on boats with their children.

One thing is for certain, your children would not have a “normal” childhood. And that’s a good thing.


#14

And different seasteads will explore different options to solve this problem.

Additionally - given the superior configuration options of seastead community expansion vs landbased expansion - some seasteads might reconfigure their layout to maximize the evolving needs of their resident children.

@Marcella_Perrella brings up good points worthy of consideration.

Thanks. Good discussion.


(Larry G) #15

Awfully judgmental tone in that Youtube interview. They clearly start out with a bias that the whole idea is stupid and dangerous, and double down a few times. they focus on the comprehensive preparation to highlight danger, rather than what it is: even-handedly addressing risk in an intelligent manner. They used judgmental terms like “incredibly cramped”. It didn’t actually look all that cramped to me. That’s a huge sailboat. It might become that way as the children grow up. But that’s no different than most people’s starter homes, apartments, condos, and a hell of a lot better than most of the world’s population has access to.

They make a big deal of the off-shore rescue- but people have these exact same problems 50 miles from the city when their cell phone’s battery dies.


(Chad Elwartowski) #16

Ya, I had no sound at work so didn’t watch it. Just pulled up the first result on YouTube for “living on boat kids”.

Though I am not surprised that the government media would be discouraging people from living a free lifestyle.


(Matias Volco) #17

Hello Marcella,

This is extremely important topic since the different between exploration and settlement is precisely the ability to raise children in more comfort, more safety, better circumstances and potentiality, than land cities: exactly what the new continents used to offer the Old World.
Otherwise the “New Age of Sailboats” woud have already begun and solved this entire Seasteading issue.

I believe it has to do entirely with interference freedom. As an exammple, children and older people, and anyone in between, could lead smoother lives in cities designed as modern human habitats, instead of automobile habitats.

Look how the children run around without even realizing their saffe confinement:

And when the parents are back the children can learn to swim and all that very hands-on stuff: