Casting concrete structures up from the sea floor


#1

This is a continuation of the Casting concrete structures up from the sea floor topic from the old forum system.


(Bob LLewellyn) #2

Greetings all, My name is Bob and though I am new to this forum, I am not new to the concept of Seasteading. After reading this topic from the previous forum, I would like to kind of start over and fill in some of the blanks left in the previous discussion.

By starting over, everyone can be on the same page, what to do, how to begin etc. Previous discussion seemed to flow around how to build a multimillion dollar country if we could only find the money. When ever a business is created, they always start with the money and work outward from there.

I can’t imagine anyone that would be willing to give you money so you can go live in some watery Shangri-La, just not going to happen. So what would someone want to give money for? How about a research facility to study how humans can live at sea?

Let’s consider this proposal; A small city at sea designed to be self sustaining and developing the oceans natural resources in an environmentally beneficial way.

The estimates population of the Earth for the year 2050, (that’s 35 years from now) is anywhere from 7.4 to 10.6 billion.

Further the Earth surface is just over 500 million square kilometers (sqkm). 30% of that area is land or about 150,000,000 sqkm, roughly 57,500,000 sq mi. Of which 20% is in the extreme north and south and is covered by snow. Another 20% is mountains and 20% dry desert. Finally about 30% is good land that can be farmed, with another 10% that doesn’t have topsoil but can be lived on like a city.

This means that the entire population of the Earth is living on just 60,000,000 sqkm of land. Less than 12% of the surface of the planet and we are running low on resources. It is estimated that we will need to increase our food production by 40% if we want to stave off food riots in the near future. With 70% of the surface of the planet being salt water the oceans would be the natural extension. The problem is we know very little about it. When it comes to the Earth’s oceans, we are still in the hunter gatherer stage. We have entered the third millennium but still we don’t have even one city, town or outpost in the Sea.

What we would like to propose is an experiment in developing Earths ocean resources intelligently and respectful to the planet. To learn about living at sea, we need to begin living at sea. We need real people living and making a living at sea.

There is ample energy out in the oceans. Plenty of wind, solar and wave energy. And there is hydrogen in the water if we can free it economically. We can make all the fresh water we will ever need from the oceans water with a desalination pump. With fresh water we can raise our own crops using hydroponics and fish farming. Tourism would probably be our beginning industry until the other industries are developed but by not having a lot of laws, just the laws of the sea, those other industries could develop freely and quickly.

The type of government would by necessity be libertarian. The reason for this is that we don’t know what we will find once the project is underway and libertarian-ism is the least restrictive. A side benefit to that is that we can actually test out different government styles and see how well each one works. (Not in the same place of course).

The whole imitation island would be a lab for all sorts of projects. Learning to live at sea, where the sea would be our home is the primary emphases. The oceans water level is still rising as the ice sheets melt. Low lying islands like the Bahamas will be losing a lot of their country but if we learn to live at sea, the Bahamas can go on being a country.

And this is were we can start. The Bahamas have a problem that we can help them with, and we have a problem that the Bahamian government can help us with. There is a natural symbiotic relationship just waiting to happen, all we need is the right people to get it started.

If they agree to the project city at sea and future ones, the sea-cities would be given self governing territorial status as the US Virgin Islands have with the US. In return, the Bahamas would issue passports and charge appropriate fees for the privilege. This would be a direct benefit to the Bahamian government as it would increase revenues without increasing liabilities. In addition, the sea-city project would be protected from pirates because it has international standing as a research project. We both win.

Here is the kicker. There is one place in the ocean that is hundreds of square kilometers where the
depth is less than 30 feet (10 meters) deep. There are two areas within that region that is beyond the 50 mile continuous zone from any country. (Unfortunately none of that region is beyond the 200 mile limit.)

The smaller area closest to the US is about 1000 square miles, the other is larger. ( I have a picture to upload but don’t know how to add it, Please someone help here.)

The land just North of the region is the Bahamas as are the islands to the east. Cuba is to the south.

It will take about 2 million dollars to make a two tier platform 50 meters by 50 meters that would stand at least 50 feet (15 meters) above the surface. Boat parking would be below the primary platform.

Now here is where the project differs from the previous discussion and begins to get exciting. Anyone can build right next to the first and a third and a hundred and twelfth. In other words, it can grow where the deep sea platforms and floating ones are limited. Hotels could build their own platform to give researcher a place to stay and universities could build their own platform for their students.

In this way, a little at a time we can discover how to live and thrive in the Earths oceans. That is something that benefactors can get behind. Plus I have some other fund-raising ideas that can improve the likelihood of getting the 2 mil we would need to begin with. But for now I will close this segment off and give others a chance to comment on what I have begun here.

Bob


(Wilfried Ellmer) #3

you might consider that settlement standing on the ocean floor in shallow waters (glorified Kelong) is quite pointless as the primary task is “settlement on the ocean” and the average depth is around (14.000 feet) - anything “non floating” falls short to solve the bottleneck, and contribute to sustainability by opening the oceanic resources and real estate reserve… Also you might consider that 15m height above the waves is not Draupner Safe. 60m are required for a decent safety factor according to the non linear wave model…


Startup suggestion list



(Randolph Hencken) #4

Another concern is that a fixture that is permanently implanted in teh seafloor within the 200M EEZ is considered an artificial island and therefore the territory of the neighboring country. This would defeat true autonomy without some form of contract/treaty with the neighboring nation.

But I like the direction you’re thinking @ForexBob, and I think it’s important that a seastead can grow incrementally. I wonder what you think about the strategy set forth in the Institute’s Floating City Project.


How concerned we need to be about legal frameworks
(Bob LLewellyn) #5

“I wonder what you think about the strategy set forth in the Institute’s Floating City Project.”

Nothing wrong with it at all, but that is a long term plan as no one has the financial clout to pull off such an undertaking. But there are no rules that say we can’t do both. Living at sea is going to take a large learning curve. If you put multiple millions in a floating city, you would like to know that the fresh water supply will be sufficient to meet all the needs. Right now, we don’t even know what those needs are. .

That is why we need the shallow water starter project. Pointless someone said? Learning how to live at sea before you spend a fortune, and how to survive wave and natural problems at sea is pointless? Well to each their own. For me, I like all the research I can get before I put my life on the line. Plus, research is a marketable commodity. We can get funding for that a lot faster than you can for floating a city - especially without smaller working projects to point to. Start small and grow, start big and it will take forever to get started.

Do what you can now from where you are. Learn how to grow using hydroponics, learn about sub marine structures so your floating buildings can act as a submarine does, and those can go safely underwater for quite some time.

After we see what the sea has to throw at us, one way to protect against a large wave might just be to close the doors and drop it under the seas surface going under the storm as a submarine does. That is something we can find out about in the shallows on the cheap as well has a mess of other things. We need a research project to lead the way. Well, that’s my 2 cents worth anyway.

Bob
PS still need to know how to upload a map. Any help would be appreciated.


(Randolph Hencken) #6

Hey Bob, have you read the FCP report? We are talking about shallo/protected waters. I don’t know that you’re going to build anything sturdier than what we’ve studied for less money per module. If you have other information, please share it.


(Bob LLewellyn) #7

It’s not so much different information, it’s really a different vision. The Floating City is an important goal as it offers more long term options, but to get there we need more information and resources. The ultimate vision for the floating city is limited government. My vision is more of a village at sea. A gas station, a restaurant, A hotel and a general store.

The Floating city is for city folk, I want to learn how to farm the sea. Raise crops in hydroponic gardens, (Sea going barges). Grow fish in big nets instead of big tanks. Instead of 50 meter squares laid end to end and side to side, we would build more of a square doughnut, a kilometer long with a marina inside for lots of boats.

The first 50 meter square platform will be the most expensive, about 2.5 million, but each one after that would be less as they could be built from the previous instead of a construction barge. Each time we build a new platform, we sell the oldest. We can pre-sell once we get started and show the viability and infrastructure already in place.

This type of a project could get funding from universities that have a marine studies program, Private donors that want to help us feed the world and Non profit charitable organizations that see the project as a research program, which it is.

Our village will be built on cement stilts in 20 to 30 feet of water. It’s pretty simple. But we will learn things that will benefit the big floating city project, and because of economies of scale, might even be able to reduce the cost of the floating cities.

What I need is to meet someone that knows how to write grant funding requests. How to make it look professional and the Seastead people have that down pat. They make their presentation look good.

But that project would happen faster if they had some smaller successes to show. That’s how these two projects can help each other. The Seastead organization through grants builds two or three platforms and maybe a fuel barge. This first platform runs a fuel and water station, a restaurant, general store and small motel.

The profits after paying the labor and overhead would go back to the Seastead project. We build a third platform and sell it either whole or in parts, and build another. The water purification system that feeds the first platform and the fuel and water barge would also feed the second, third and so on therefore costs will be reduced for additional platforms.

The Seastead project would then become ocean front property developers and would drop its non profit status or spin off Marinea as a separate business. I have come to call this sea village Marinea because it is shorter than the description. For now though, I am closing this booklet that I am passing off as a mere response to your question.

Bob


Building up a marine business cluster will lead to seasteading
(Bob LLewellyn) #8

Thanks to Ellmer, I think I can now upload the map. Lets see.

There is one place in the ocean that is hundreds of square kilometers where the depth is less than 30 feet (10 meters) deep. There are two areas within that region that is beyond the 50 mile continuous zone from any country. (Unfortunately none of that region is beyond the 200 mile limit.)


Note the two areas in the red zones, the smaller area closest to the US is about 1000 square miles, the other is larger. From B2 to C7 is 58 miles and from I2 to C6 is about 40. I believe that the best pursuit would be to approach the Bahamanian government and ask them to make the project city a self governing territory and would represent the city (I call it Marinea) in the UN.

One key factor that makes the Bahamas a good possibility is that they have a lot of land just over the sea level. If we continue to get increasing water levels, they will lose much of their country to the sea. However, if they help us with our research program, they will have actual research into how to provide for their people when their land is gone. If they allow us to become a nation without land, they set a premise for themselves for the years to come.

Bob


(jtaxman) #11

Totally agree, It’s extremely ignorant not to do some testing first.


(Chris) #12

If you can find a spot, perhaps on a seamount, outside an EEZ, only one structure would need to be fixed and you could attach several floating structures, (yachts maybe).

If you build such an artificial island, you might find someone to recognize it’s sovereignty. China may do so to strengthen it’s own claim on the Spratley Islands. China may also agree to defend it for you for the same reason, which would give you at least protection from aggression.

With sovereignty (even if disputed) comes your own EEZ (even if disputed) provided you can defend it aggressively. (with the help of China)

Just a thought experiment on my part.


(Matias Volco) #13

You´re right about that last part because otherwise with building on the seafloor even outside the EEZ comes the Mauritian Navy with an eviction notice.


(Paul) #14

Hi Bob, I originally got interested in seasteads through the old WW2 Maunsell forts off the
UK coast.Recently I’ve been watching youtube vids on massive floating concrete structures;
bit above my pay-grade to figure out how those things don’t sink.Anyhow what’s your best
idea for shallow water locations/seamounts outside of any nations EEZ? Cheers!


(Paul) #15

Looks a bit like something from Bert and Earnies fishtank.Can’t see any gold dubloons, but hey!:sunglasses: