Can we draw lessons from Burning Man? | oceanic business alliance

(Wilfried Ellmer) #1

Continuing the discussion from Can a libertarian paradise exist if flagged as a ship of a country:

Far from being a "copy of a land state" a seastead will be something new
A Constitution for Seasteads: The Las Portadas Investment Culture
Enforcement by culture better than enforcement by police
Community at Sea - Drowning Man and Ephemerisle 2016
The age of ideological trench wars is over
(Wilfried Ellmer) #2

Of course we can it is an example how people organize along a “culture” rather than along a state and a enforced law code .

part of the discussion is here.…at the end of a long thread…the hipothesis was presented that burning man is organized and coherent versus occupy (not organized) fell apart.


Here’s a link to one version of the 10 principles.

There is some commentary online that make it worthwhile to search out different versions.

I’m not a burner. The commentary I’ve read says that the 10 Principles are key to the oral culture and traditions of Burning Man. They say that first time Burners need to be “taught” and that longer term burners are a bit dismissive until they “get it”. So this looks a lot to me like AA principles (another libertarian organization) where the writing is only the start of a larger tradition that is conveyed orally and through actions.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #4

in some way burning man is taking the model of a native tribe that consists in sticking to “core values” instead of putting anything into “small grid law coding” - In another thread the hypothesis was presented that a nation could be based more on people culture and core values than on state, borders, flags, territory, and UN recognition. In burning man we might see the tip of the iceberg of the internet age version of “tribe building” .

One of these side effects of internet is that it will change the way people on the planet organize in groups, networks, and come togethers.

Would these sea steads have a military?
(Jonas Smith) #5

As long as that “culture” follows all state and federal fire code laws and adheres to all NFPA codes:

And funny how quickly you don’t mind “the man” and “big government” when you are being treated by volunteer doctors and getting airlifted to a hospital in Reno:

(Wilfried Ellmer) #6

i don’t see a reason why a culture should not share infrastructure with another culture, or even form alliances, in the sense of global cooperation - what is bad with that ? - on contrary i would promote cultural interchange and transcultural learning instead of xenofobic borders, states, and territory - as a mainstream measure to uplift humanity in the sense of enlightenment.


I think you’ve made a good point,even it if is the opposite of the one intended.

Obviously, a people living on a seastead will have a range of medical problems. Short term ones like injury, a heart attack or a birth. And long term ones like treatable cancer, diabetes, or obesity.

Again this is something I covered in my book. The reason is that in my fictional scenario, nearly everyone who emigrated is over the age of 40, and some are in their 60s. So they have a range of conditions appropriate to those ages.

Having lived much of my adult life in areas of little government, I know from experience the annoyance of taking an all day 400 mile round trip just for a simple oncology test. Here in the US we have excellent care and rarely travel more than 30 minutes for an appointment. On a seastead, it may take a 3-4 day, boats, planes and automobile journey of several thousand miles just for a 5 minute biopsy. And if it comes up positive, you live on shore for six months for treatment.

We should plan for it.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #8

you might consider to look at a seastead from a “oceanic hub” perspective instead of a remote boating perspective.

And why should a seastead not have a “med supply alliance” with a nearby land hospital and a helicopter rescue service like in Europe. - Burning Man could manage that already even for a temporary fest - what is the difficulty to manage and negotiate that.

(Jonas Smith) #9

Burners are not “sharing infrastructure”. They are protesting bureaucracy, capitalism, rules and regulations while at the same time relying on them for their well-being. That is hypocrisy, not cultural interchange.

People hate “enforced law code” until they need that “enforced law code” to get them to a hospital or pay for their expensive medical care or stop them from blowing themselves up with a faulty propane tank.

(Jonas Smith) #10

My point is: Don’t cry about excessive rules and regulations and then rely on those rules and regulations for your well-being or even, as many do, complain when those rules and regulations don’t help you fast enough.

A libertarian society needs to have a libertarian solution to medical care.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #11

you may consider if you do not build up too many borders, rules, codings, territories, flags and classifications, in your mind, to be still able to live in a 21st century world of networks, rapid changes, and unprobable alliances…

Is not one of the core messages of the Burners cross cultural, multi color, sharing, try different,… so far from hypocrisy we could take that efficient med evac cooperation as “in harmony with the core values” - or even a key example how networks organize using positive aspects of existing infrastructure without absorbing some of its negative aspects…the age of ideological trench wars is over…

The age of ideological trench wars is over
(Wilfried Ellmer) #12

I am not sure that this is the core of the venture - it looks rather as a intent to create a culture…but is there a “Burner” on the forum who can flesh that out ?


No we can’t. They are in the desert,…

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