Building Barges Using Advanced Concrete Methods?


#83

Degrees of arc. +20 characters


(Richard Sheak) #84

The ultimate test for any colonized Seastead is to withstand a Category 5 hurricane. It would need to be much larger and the moor would need to be anchored in such a way they would not move or lose tension. The sides/walls would need to be angled to deflect the power of the gusts and the force of crashing waves. It would need to designed so the storm would pass over it.


(Richard Sheak) #85

Not if you interconnect them into a cohesive structure such that 6 together (side by side) would be a 450’ X 450’ platform.


(Richard Sheak) #86

I’ve worked inside buoys off the coast that were anchored and if you have a weak stomach you should never do it without motion sickness medication. I’ve also been on flat bottomed barges in rough seas, not much better than the buoy. I got really sick that time also. The three point moor was the only platform that was stable.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #87

You might want to read what i said on May on 11 here

Portunus marks the size point where you can start to skip the directional bow design and start to do boxy stuff without bow and still have acceptable movements.

The kind of bow you need for cat 5 cyclones in a directional bow design on a turret mooring is visible on Prelude

Prelude is still in the size class where you NEED bow design …


#88

A half submerged ‘bow’ equal to the height of the waves will provide a relatively calm area behind it at the Kelvin Wave Angle 19.5˚. The problem is positioning it directly between the waves and the SeaStead, because it increases the size of the waves at and past the Kelvin Wave Angle. There is no free lunch.


(Richard Sheak) #89

So you’re saying you must turn into the wind unless your structure exceeds a certain size. How big would a platform need to be and not need a bow in your estimate?


#90

There is a very good reason that even Oases class cruise ships, (Length: 1,186′, Capacity: 5,400 passengers at double occupancy; 6,296 maximum; Cost: US$1.4 billion (2006), Crew: 2,165 on maiden voyage; 2,394 as of July 2012; Height: 72 m (236 ft) above water line), actual “seasteads”, 3 times bigger than 450’ x 450’, ran from the Caribbean Basin while facing the wrath of hurricane Irma and Maria.

The chances are that in a Cat 5, such “ultimate test” will be ultimate and deadly,… Avoiding a Cat 5 is the “maritime industry standard” for centuries, therefore mobility (having propulsion) should be A MUST for any size seastead.

“A Good Run is Better than a Bad Stand”

PS. No matter what size, why would you want to built without a bow?


(Wilfried Ellmer) #91

Maersk Triple E class freighters have been reported to be still in their comfort zone when taking big ocean waves somewhat sideways… ( 400m LOA | 59 m Beam) to be on the safe side some 70m beam would be the right estimate to begin with… The Nkossa barge built for very calm equatorial waters went with 46 m beam and the reports are satisfactory.

Both Nkossa and Prelude are NOT designed to run from any kind of weather - they can not lift anchor and run. Prelude is officially designed for cyclones cat 5.

Matias Volco designs also reach a beam class above 30m for a family house sized floating structure…
So a good level of comfort in big oceanic waves is a expected behavior.

The seastar design reaches the enourmous beam size required without needing the massive building volume of a box barge much lighter much more elegant much flexibler much more useful.

The design question is : how do you form as little material as necessary in a shape that gives you a maximum of beam and therefore and form stability. A box is not necessaryly a fully “optimized answer” to that question.

This, on the other hand may be :
http://nautilusmaker.com/t/what-you-should-know-about-me-get-connected-get-started-get-invested/1584/22?u=ellmer

…and it deserves to be mentioned in a topic “Advanced Concrete Methods”…

Don´t get me wrong i do not dismiss boxy floating homes ( i have some in my production pipeline for people who realy want it in the “Cholon floating community project” ) i just want to encourage to think a bit outside the box …


(Richard Sheak) #92

Not considering boxy floating homes…we will be desalinating seawater and experimenting with different alternatives.


(Nick Gencarelle) #93

Not true. They will be many times stronger and longer lasting yet lighter. Our US Army Corps of Engineering concrete a UHPC has been made into big blocks and placed in the sea in Maine now for twenty years. Every five years they take them out and examine. They have barely scratched the surface with no degradations.


(Nick Gencarelle) #94

one can make concrete as heavy as you want it. Having a non- corrosive reinforcement just means it will last many times longer. Ultra High Performance Concrete will outlast them all. And we have the best most affordable version now.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #95

@NickGri | can you release some more info on that Ultra High Performance Concrete you mentioned … sounds interresting !


(.) #96

Can a floating structure be a monolithic structure if the construction of it
is not continuous?


#97

Seasteads CAN be built in ferrocement. That’s true. Therefore basalt or geopolymer are not a prerequisite,… As for “nor the proper materials or methods for seasteads construction”, I was mainly questioning the basalt light density compared to steel.

I agree that will last longer. But the strength of a ferrocement built hull it’s all in the steel armature. How would basalt compare?

Yes, sounds very interesting. Can you prove the above statement?


(Nick Gencarelle) #98

As I said above blocks of it have been on the coast of Maine for twenty years and almost no degradation visible.
Water and chemicals do not penetrate it. 24-30,000 plus psi higher shear, flexural modulus of elasticity, tensile and compressive numbers by far over OPC.
So impacts are handled much better- it was designed as a ballistics material. With basalt it will bend and yet return unlike normal OPC that will snap. Much thinner, and if desired lighter yet stronger products will be made.


(Nick Gencarelle) #99

Cor-Tuf.com is the website we just made.


(Wilfried Ellmer) #100

@NickGri • I checked on the tech specs and this adds new info to the conversation we had on march 6 | 2016 | about the possibilty to settle the oceanic space from surface to bottom .

While concrete spheres (see ocean sphere concept) made of normal concrete are limited to a depth rating of 1000m, spheres made of this kind of “special composite materials” can reach the average ocean depth of 4276m and beyond.

This opens a tremendous volume of space for human settlement and exploration. Vent Base Alpha is on the horizon of feasibility.

(Maximum depth | tubular concrete structures | hydrostatic load | spheres | oceanic business alliance)

The oceanic business alliance (nautilusmaker® ) has a big deep diving live and work aboard submarine with global mobility in its project pipeline.

Deep Sea salvage (San Jose), diamond mining in deeper water (DeBeers), alluvial deep water gold deposits in ancient pre-ice age riverbeds, and hydrothermal riches are waiting to be exploited for the pionieers who can make the technology work. We have already shown that we can. It is for a good reason that Jules Verne envisioned Captain Nemo to be the richest man on earth resorting to gold for ballasting his ship.


The other interesting business field is the oceanic surface floating construction market - it is huge -

http://concretesubmarine.activeboard.com/t43963728/floating-real-estate-building-lots-on-the-water/


Would you be open to strategic cooperation in these business fields ?


Postulate: Advanced Cement Composites will first prosper in the code free ambient of ocean colonization and only later find entrance in the normal land based construction industry.



(Nick Gencarelle) #101

Hi,

Yes, of course, that is why we now are offering these materials to the public.
I do appreciate your knowledge and experience with these technologies and companies.

We can add these new fibers as well that I offer instead of steel where wanted, for a totally no-corrosive combination.
Either in Basalt or AR-Glass which is close but less expensive.

They are little toothpick sized mini-bars with a helix like twist- incredibly strong.
So they make a much lighter longer lasting reinforcement tha steel.

Give a call if desired and let’s yes make some associative business.


(Nick Gencarelle) #102