Boat/seastead survival in a hurricane


#41

Turns out this ain’t even necessary. It’s better just to build the house itself as a spar, or by refurbishing a spar salvaged from an old oil rig.

Turns out, it was already built, but with the usual government gang waste and largess back in 1962:


Cost 600k back then. So, today that would be 5 million USD.

If it were built B2B, and only as a living structure that stays in one place, rather than a movable research platform, I reckon it wouldn’t cost nearly 5 million.
And 5 million ain’t really unreasonable even for a mansion on land in California.

This thing is made to house 16 crew and researchers for a month.
So, say it was made instead to house 8 folks - 2 families of 4.

A median price for the top-tier house in California is 1 million.
So, if this spar is made for 2 families, that’s a 2 million USD dwelling on land.

Seems like if it could be built for 3 million or so for a seastead, that would be a reasonable price to house 2 families in offshore environment.

Say the top of it were made more egg shaped, instead of half moon like this contraption is, and with none of that boat and research equipment. Maybe something like a giant golf tee?
Seems like it would have even more space. Maybe even enough for 3-family dwelling?

What’s great about this design, is that it could definitely sustain hurricane waves and winds, if shaped properly, and it has lots of tanks for fuel/water/whatever storage underneath, easy exit for scuba and watercraft.

So, if we just don’t get hung up on the house shape, and don’t try to emulate land houses on barges and what not, seems like it wouldn’t be as expensive.
It wouldn’t need a breakwater of any kind either, and be much more stable than any boat or barge.

Also, if I understand right, from Joe Quirk’s book, hurricanes don’t cross the equator.
So, if you put the initial seasteads on the equator, they wouldn’t face hurricanes anyhow.

The ones built later away from the equator, can be built leeward of the OTEC power stations, which would cool the ocean enough to weaken or eliminate hurricanes.
As the book puts it, according to Takahashi, once OTEC is widespread, “…hurricanes are not a threat to seasteads. Seasteads are a threat to hurricanes.”


#42

Do a search in here for it… We’ve covered it several times. I even proposed a mod off the proposed FLIP II, found supporting info for ferrocement, etc…


#43

Thanks. I found it.
So, why are y’all then still arguing about barges and boats and hurricanes?
Was there a design like this among the ones presented for the competition last year?


#44

No, the competition wasn’t open to individuals, no matter how sound the concepts. The rules are rigged against anything small-scale from achieving any real chance in their scheme. It’s going to start as a resort for the wealthy, before any of us real people can afford to build.

TSI has had large donations, yet they got spent on other things, rather than setting up a place to study and build.

https://www.seasteading.org/architectural-design-contest/


#45

#46

Ah, I should have guessed. :slight_smile: So, the last part of Joe’s book title about “liberate the world from politicians” is already not true? TSI can’t even liberate itself from its own internal autocratic politicians? :laughing:

I’ve seen most of those back then. It was obvious even to a child or me, that those designs - even the winning one - didn’t even meet their own criteria.
They would all be demolished by the first tropical storm, not to mention a hurricane, and could only be financed by looting the taxpayers thru government subsidies and MI Complex involvement, and so on.
Sad. :frowning:


(Bob LLewellyn) #47

Because a flip ship can’t be expanded on. As soon as you start to tie several together, you quickly realize that it would have been better to have designed and built the flip ships to have hardened points to be used to tie several together and you are back to building a seastead. However, a seastead need not be a single unit and there are multiple designs that are better than flip ships. You miss getting to know Wil, he’s got a personality that only a mother could love but he has more designs and experience in making stuff than all of us put together. Try to find stuff from him and you will get the breath of the subject.

But before you do all of that, you had better figure out how to make money or a living of some type from your system. Where are you going to get food and medical? Flip ships come up a little short in the big picture. Plus you don’t need them, people can live in boats of various sizes. But what if you want all the conveniences of living in a house with plenty of room? Look to a barge. Lots of room, low prices. Put this group of boaters and bargers in a place where they can perform a service for pay and you have a viable seastead.

And it’s relatively cheep. We just need to get started but there is one thing lacking for even that modest start, support. There is insufficient people that understand the problem and don’t see the solutions as anything but fairy tales.

Like it or not, people are incredibly stupid. I frequently marvel at the fact humanity still exists. Doing something to save lives will always be someone else’s delusion until it becomes the popular thing to do.

If TSI spent their million on making seasteading the popular trend, then they did a good job. Because what little support there is, came from TSI’s advertising. Once you see the big picture maybe you won’t want to criticize TSI efforts and maybe even say “well done”, because they certainly deserve it.


#48

Wrong answer. There are several configurations to connect them.

All in parallels, but, still it just becomes a larger semi-submersible, and eventually 3 or more) creates that space for those big open decks y’all seem to think are mandatory.

I even found a wat to build them, or did y’all conveniently forget that, too?


(Bob LLewellyn) #49

JL, pray tell, why do you and Bob spend so much time on here as you know it all already. It is hard for the rest of us to exist in the brilliance of your wit. Maybe we should all leave so you and Bob can dominate the forum completely with all your knowledge and experience. You got Will to leave, so now it’s my turn?


#50

I’m skeered… NOT!

there’s nothing wrong with answering other members.

As I said, and it is documented in this forum, there are multiple ways to connect FLiP’s to make large semi-submersible vessels. In addition, I documented a patent to build them vertically, down into to water.

Not my fault if documenting the truth reduced the presence of a person that caused most of the strife in this forum.

However, if you want to feel persecuted over your own failure, go right ahead. If Wil is so great, feel free to join his forums, I’m certainly not stopping you.


#51

A version of the FLiP even made it into a PlayStation game: SOMA. It was the MS Curie, supposed to have one of those nonexistent private nuclear reactors for power…

https://goo.gl/images/zmDPCe

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/soma/images/8/82/Sign_flip_ship_schematics.png/revision/latest?cb=20151102143016


#52

BTW, I even proposed using a FLiP as the center of an IMTA Kelp, fish and shellfish aquaculture business, even as a central spar for a fish pen.


#53

(Chad Elwartowski) #54

The competition was open to anyone. I submitted my proposal.

The reason the FLIP ship design would not work is that they were looking for platform designs. Considering they’re looking at the phased approach of starting in a lagoon.


#55

OK, revise it to mean people with advanced graphics and pretty pictures, rather than documented science, then.

Without those pretty pictures, there was no entry, no matter how valid the concept.


(Chad Elwartowski) #56

Mine was far from pretty.

Though I was disqualified because I integrated the design as modules that could be put together to create a platform rather than what would go on top.

But yes, I think their end goal was marketing material which was a simple way of spending a few thousand to get free graphics.


#57

Do any of y’all know whether that breakwater ring they pictured is some kind of a spar chain?
Or did they not even contemplate the details of that?

Seems the whole place would be damaged if not demolished by high winds during the first big storm, even without hurricane winds, whether it’s on a barge, boat or whatever.


#58

As far as I can tell, it’s just moored to the bottom, along with everything else. Nobody publicly gave any real specs on those artsy-fartsy designs.

I got frustrated because none of it had any basic operational systems specs, while I tried (and try) to take a systems approach, to take care of as much as possible with as few systems as possible.

The TSI approach, is to collect waste and ship it elsewhere, which I am totally against. That’s certainly not environmentally responsible. Of course, my bent is biogas digesters for fuel and fertilizer, so includes food production, rather than shipping usable ‘wastes’ out and importing food… But, wth do I know?


#59

Yes, unfortunately seems more for lakesteading, or those artificial Palm island in Dubai, unless they put it smack dab on the equator, say near Karibati or something.

That’s what Shimizu is planning that Joe talked about in his book, and they don’t seem to be worried about hurricanes either:
http://pinktentacle.com/2010/06/futuristic-mega-projects-by-shimizu/

Will be interesting to see what the actual new design is for Tahiti, which is what 17 degrees south?

Definitely seems like if there is no closed-loop ecosystem under it, it would just contribute to the coastal pollution problem, and be just more of the same ol’ we have now.


#60

What this negotiating book taught me about making a deal with folks - investors in this case - is that it would be real counterproductive to pull a bait and switch.

If TSI were to market me this Fantasy Island design, as an investor or potential participant, and then in reality only a spar platform forest will be possible, I wouldn’t have much confidence in them after that.

Best to hit folks with reality as soon as possible and lower their expectations, and match or overdeliver, than the other way around.