Blockchain Value Exchange System

(.) #1

May be, there could be a blockchain value exchange system started within
the wannabe seasteading members. SandDollars?
I might be inventing the hot water.

(Mariusz) #2

It certainly would be a good to experiment with this idea.

(.) #3

Basically TSI made some money by accepting donations.
There was a design contest, and some money was paid out to the winner.
Delta Sync was the winner, I guess, and some money was paid to them.
That was in “hard” currency, in US dollars.
There was already a value exchange between people, and that was about seasteading.

The idea would be to develop a value exchange system between wannabe seasteders
that is not based on US dollars on any other currency. Or it is not necessary based
on US dollars or on any other currency. For example we could call it the
Seasteader Sand Dollar. It could be a crypto-currency that is similar to bitcoin.
This could be a symbol of contribution to seasteading and not necessary monetary

May be, there are other members who know more about bitcoin and crypto-currency,
and miners and ledgers and so on, who would want to participate creating such a thing.

(Chad Elwartowski) #4

When considering this for Marinea we decided that the best route forward for a currency is Bitcoin. The idea behind going with the established currency as opposed to creating a new one is that there are so many places that accept bitcoin that using something else would almost guarantee that people would need to continually convert back and forth to other currencies. If we paid our workers in some other currency they would need to convert to another currency to use it on the mainland. But if they were paid in bitcoins they could jump on Amazon and buy something to have it delivered, they could pay for web hosting services, they could pay for video games, food, just about anything on the Internet with their bitcoins.

With the new upgrades to Bitcoin such as Lightning Network, a semi-closed network on a seastead far from land can handle thousands of Bitcoin transactions without needing to rely on the rest of the network. That way your currency used on the seastead is able to tap into a world currency used by millions, opening up the seastead economy to the rest of the world as opposed to adding a layer of isolation from anyone wanting to do business with people on the seastead.

Though the reality is that anyone will be free to use whatever currency they want. The more popular ones will win out.

(.) #5

I am interested about Bitcoin, and I think it is a good idea for any community to
consider using it. I think of Bitcoin and other crypto currencies as value exchange,
not as value accumulating instruments.

For example if I sell something for Bitcoin I would not leave the value as Bitcoin, but
I would purchase tangible goods to conserve value. This way, almost any crypto currency
is a good one. Certainly Bitcoin is the best so far. Similar ideas apply to any other
currency such as USD, EuroDollar, BritishPound, … etc

I thought about a parallel kind of, not so official, certificate of something, that wannabe
seasteaders could agree upon. Or not, and until that Bitcoin will suffice.

(Chad Elwartowski) #6

I’ve been living off of Bitcoin and keep it as my sole currency so it is certainly possible to keep it as a value accumulating instrument (commodity) as well as value exchange. Fiat is something that is usually only really necessary the closer you get to government institutions.

If you ever go to Porkfest in New Hampshire you will see the experiment of open currencies and see that many shops accept Bitcoin, alt coins, silver, gold, etc.

We don’t really know how currency or many things will work until we actually get there and begin testing out true freedom. I look forward to being part of that process.


IMHO, the real problem with electronic funds is the conversion of ‘work’, or property to whatever.

Minimum wages cover that, to some degree, but who decides what ‘this’ patent, or that concept is ‘worth’…?

(Chad Elwartowski) #8

The market.


So, no matter how much time, money, though, research someone pours into a product, his/her patent has no value, in digital currency. Sounds like it’s all hokey to talk IP, creating currencies, and so on, if you cannot put a price on it.

What makes one persons time more worthwhile to pay for, than another? Are all manhours to be equal? Then why wouldn’t my research hours, development and patenting have an assigned value, based on work done?

If someone hires for manual labor, there’s an approximate value minimum wage, quality mental work should, at least, have a higher ‘value’, like comparing the work of a CEO, to a bookkeeper.

Who establishes and controls these functions, and if digital currency has value, how does a product, or labor create that currency? How does it get regulated to assure equitable solutions?

(.) #10

Good questions. I wish I knew the answers.

May be one day.

(Chad Elwartowski) #11

If the product produced has value, someone can pay bitcoins for it. The price is what someone is willing to pay for it, and what someone is willing to sell it for.

All manhours should not be equal. The price is what someone is willing to pay for it, and what someone is willing to sell them for.

There is no minimum wage in a global economy. Your wage is only what someone is willing to pay for it, and what you are willing to sell it for.

Bitcoin is created by an algorithm. All 21 million bitcoins were created when Satoshi started the program in 2009. They were just all cryptologically locked. They began being unlocked at 50 bitcoins every 10 minutes (cut in half every 4 years) by solving a random hash function on the computer. This also helps to run the network. It is regulated by math, equally distributed based upon math. The price of the bitcoins produced is whatever someone is willing to pay for it, and what someone is willing to sell them for.

Any other solution takes away peoples’ will.


I see no reason bit-coin, or any other fictional currency helps me, at all. Cold, hard, cash opens doors, puts food on the table, etc. It has an agreed upon ‘value’, but limiting the number artificially screws with the ‘value’ as more people use fewer of them. Not like fiat currency is a lot better, but at least it is useable everywhere. I’d have to go to great lengths, IF I had any bitcoin to buy anything at most of the places I go to, because they are not acceptable ‘currency’.

(Chad Elwartowski) #13

I highly suggest you do not buy any bitcoins.

Do not enjoy the benefit of a currency that does not lose value (fiat is made to purposefully lose value) over time. Do not use it to buy goods on Amazon at 15% off. Do not use it to transfer money across the world for pennies. Do not use it to travel across borders without being confiscated. Do not use it as the most secure asset in the world.

Most importantly, do not buy bitcoins because too many people that don’t “get it” buy bitcoins just so they can sell it for fiat down the road and are perfectly fine with asking their governments to regulate it in the hopes that the value goes up.

It is as close to a free market currency as possible. I understand that most people do not like the “free” part of the free market. Just as most people do not truly want freedom.

(Mariusz) #14

Does not lose value? That’s a joke right? Value of bitcoin fluctuates constantly. Right now it’s at $1200 when I last checked few days ago it was closer to $1000.

(Chad Elwartowski) #15

Is that a loss in value?

Short term fluctuation, yes. Long term it is built to not lose value. Only 21 million bitcoins will ever exist. What is the maximum amount of Federal Reserve Notes?

(.) #16

My opinion about bitcoin is better to pay attention to it.
I am old enough to remember all those negative opinions about
the Internet, web pages, ebay, paypal, Amazon, craigslist, Netflix, youtube.

Like it or not, those are here to stay. Same thing with uber and that other rental thing.
Whatever that is. So bitcoin is probably here to stay.
Blockchain is an idea that was let out of the bottle like a Ginny.
Same thing with artificial intelligence: AI is in use already.

(.) #17

Dramatically stating:
The data on the Internet keeps flowing no matter what.


If you have expertise in this area, I’d love to talk to you about it. There are several flaws with existing virtual currencies, and a sea related digital currency would have lots of applications.


Anything subject to the whims of power-supply, and an internet connection is more difficult to use, than cold hard cash. One coronal mass ejection and the entire electrical supply, and possibly the entire data on the internet, is subject to loss. One significant virus could potentially erase all your bitcoins, any second, while the $5 in my wallet will still be worth $5 tomorrow, even if the grids and internet go down.

(.) #20

Certainly just voluntarily participation.