Blockchain and Seasteading

(bill mapezzi) #24

but there is “control”. the central “admiistrators” can move the trading price up and down by changing the mining price which affects both supply and perception of stability(in regards to security), at least with bitcoin as I understand.

(noboxes) #25

It’s pointless discussing this here, nothing will be clarified, and it all will get deleted. Sorry for being such an asshole.

(bill mapezzi) #26

Thats was Wilma’s fault, he deleted his own thread I think.

(Chad Elwartowski) #27

It’s all good, I can clarify blockchain technology for those that don’t understand it.

There is no “correcting” necessary in a blockchain.

Think of each block like putting a piece of paper in a transparent box, then putting that box into another transparent box that also has a piece of paper, and putting that box inside of another transparent box with a piece of paper, and on and on and on. You can see all of the pieces of paper down to the first box.
For Bitcoin, once you go through 6 “boxes”, it’s mathematically impossible to change what was on that piece of paper. It cannot be altered from there.

For a citizenship, it would just be an entry on that piece of paper saying “Joe is now a citizen of X seastead”.

Everyone can view it and see that he is a citizen.

If he left, you would not then go back through all of those boxes to “alter” it. You would simply create a new entry on a piece of paper saying “Joe is no longer a citizen of X seastead”.

Or the process could be controlled by Joe where it says “I am now a citizen of X seastead -Joe”.
Then later, when he leaves, he could write “I am no longer a citizen of X seastead -Joe”.

Even with Bitcoin, you create a transaction saying “I transfer 1 bitcoin to address: XYZ from address ABC”.
Later in the blockchain you might create another transaction saying “I transfer 1 bitcoin to address: ABC from address XYZ”.
You would not go back and just alter the first transaction to just give a balance of zero. You would have both transactions forever on the blockchain. But with simple math you could go back and add up the transactions to get your final balance of zero (for XYZ).

(noboxes) #28

Ah, so anyone can enter conflicting info?

(bill mapezzi) #29

No, only the programmers through their “backdoors”.

(Chad Elwartowski) #30

No. Not at all.

For Bitcoin, when you mine a block you essentially find a random number between 1 and X. If you guess the right number, you receive the reward of 50 bitcoins (at first). The target time between mined blocks is 10 minutes. So if you mine before the 10 minutes then the algorithm notes that it is too easy, and raises the number ‘X’ so it takes longer. Mining difficulty rises as miners get the number before 10 minutes, it goes down if it takes longer than 10 minutes (the difficulty takes into account the past 2 weeks of mined blocks to determine difficulty for the next 2 weeks).

The rewarded bitcoin was set in stone in the algorithm from the first block mined. Every 4 years the block reward is halved. It started at 50, then 4 years later it was halved to 25, then 2 years ago it was halved again to 12.5. In 2020 the reward will be halved again to 6.25. This makes it so that the amount of coins released is on a fixed schedule and everyone knows the quantity and how many more bitcoins are to be mined. It will halve until around 2140 when the last bitcoin is rewarded and miners will only make money off of transaction fees. The full amount of bitcoins that will be released over the course of time is 21 million.

There are no “administrators” of Bitcoin. It is decentralized, running on thousands of distributed computers (and satellites) all over the world with no central authority.

(Chad Elwartowski) #31

Each person has to sign their transaction, whatever information is put on the blockchain is signed with your private key (essentially your password).

You only have control over what you have been assigned. Someone sends you some bitcoin and assigns control over those bitcoins to you. You are the only one that can do anything with them. Nobody else can sign a transaction involving those bitcoins.

Creating a citizenship input would be more complicated but follows the same logic.

(Chad Elwartowski) #32

The blockchain protocol is completely open source for any and all to see. Blockchain has been around for 9 years under the scrutinizing eyes of millions of people who would benefit greatly by finding a flaw in the protocol.

If there’s a backdoor, please point it out so that I can make millions…or billions even.

(noboxes) #33

Hey, i think i found a flaw! “Blockchain has been around for 9 years” so Elwar will be changing it. Sorry for being an asshole.

(Chad Elwartowski) #34

The term “blockchain” refers to the concept of “a chain of blocks”. Not any one protocol implementation.

It usually refers to the idea of a distributed ledger that has no central control.

The Bitcoin protocol utilizes the blockchain to record all transactions.

The Ethereum protocol utilizes the blockchain to record smart contracts.

The Namecoin protocol utilizes the blockchain to register domain names.

A “citizenship” protocol would utilize blockchain to record citizenship.

(Chad Elwartowski) #35

If you are truly interested in how it works, I will refer to the original white paper:

(rob) #36

The same is true of ICO of EOS (disclaimer: which I own). However, this is to avoid strict regulations that American regulators have. Also, Chinese citizens are not allowed for the same reason. But both still buy it in large amounts.
Also, later generation cryptocoins avoid the environment impact of bitcoin mining.
I am thinking of putting a few dollars in Varyon, why not, think of it like a lottery.


No lottery here. Personally, I do trust Blue Frontiers as SOLID. I’m debating an investment too. Let’s see how it trades,…

(rob) #38

I agree. As with a lottery you only put in enough for fun, to see what happens. I would be more careful with investment sized purchases. But I like to have fun and see what different things do.

(Gordon Hoffman) #39

The term for US Banks “To Big To Fail” really bothers me, and I don’t think there should be privately owned banks - money is a medium of exchange - it is not something to profit from directly.

Then, on the other hand, how much energy does it take to run a crypto currency - and who pays for that? I don’t feel comfortable with it.

(Chad Elwartowski) #40

A lot less than the banking and precious metal sectors.




(Larry G) #41

So you would prohibit lending at interest? THAT would really put a crimp in investing excess rather than immediate consumption incentives.

Or is it that no one should be paid to perform accounting services?

Sorry to break it to you, but exchange IS the profit. The transaction is where the majority of the “profit” is made. We transact because the excess things I have are worth relatively less to me than the things you have. Your excess is worth relatively less to you than the things I have. When we exchange our excess capital, then we both profit because we both have compositions of various things that are more desirable than the composition and quantity of the things we used to have.

The vast majority of wealth these days is not in things. It is in knowledge (techniques, trades, etc.) Having enough stuff (food, clothing, shelter) to exist without dying immediately is a trivial exercise for the vast majority of the world, even the places that live on less than a dollar a day. It really doesn’t take a lot to just exist. Western civilization/industrialization has made us ALL wealthy beyond the wildest dreams of our ancestors. And part of that process has been the building of trust in accounting processes and the extension of credit with reasonable expectation of repayment per terms under the law.

(Gordon Hoffman) #42

Great information. And I never believed in gold as valuable except for artists and electronic devices. And of course I believe in exchange of goods. I don’t have money that I can afford to loose (and maybe bit-coin is a way to preserve wealth). I might need to respect President Trump’s wealth using Russian money and US real estate - justly earned, I guess; but what do I know.

(.) #43

I have similar thoughts as Gordien.
However, I do not know much about Russian money.
I have invested in US real estate. Justly earned sounds good. Justly earned, to me, it would
mean that volunteer exchange. That is kind of libertarian idea.

I did not think of bitcoin as preseving wealth, but others did, and they did well.
Same thing again; what do I know.

I would still use bitcoin as exchange. My idea would be to accumulate value in physical
object and exchange it to another physical object using bitcoin. I would use the bitcoin as
a way of exchange, but I would not keep it long to preserve value in it. But others did, and
made lots of money.

Gold is a strange way of preserving money, for me. But during centuries other people
used it as such, and it became traditional way. May be, I just have to learn from others,
and accept consensus.

In the book Sailing the Farm, Ken Neumeyer writes about using silver coins as an exchange.
His reasoning is, it would be lower denomination coins than gold coins. I understand that.

I can see the necessity of exchange of goods, as thebastige (Larry G) writes about it.

This might be a good service from those who understand and have experience with bitcoin
and other crypto currencies to write here about it, as information for those, like me, who know
little about it.