Blockchain and Seasteading

(Chad Elwartowski) #35

If you are truly interested in how it works, I will refer to the original white paper:

(rob) #36

The same is true of ICO of EOS (disclaimer: which I own). However, this is to avoid strict regulations that American regulators have. Also, Chinese citizens are not allowed for the same reason. But both still buy it in large amounts.
Also, later generation cryptocoins avoid the environment impact of bitcoin mining.
I am thinking of putting a few dollars in Varyon, why not, think of it like a lottery.


No lottery here. Personally, I do trust Blue Frontiers as SOLID. I’m debating an investment too. Let’s see how it trades,…

(rob) #38

I agree. As with a lottery you only put in enough for fun, to see what happens. I would be more careful with investment sized purchases. But I like to have fun and see what different things do.

(Gordon Hoffman) #39

The term for US Banks “To Big To Fail” really bothers me, and I don’t think there should be privately owned banks - money is a medium of exchange - it is not something to profit from directly.

Then, on the other hand, how much energy does it take to run a crypto currency - and who pays for that? I don’t feel comfortable with it.

(Chad Elwartowski) #40

A lot less than the banking and precious metal sectors.




(Larry G) #41

So you would prohibit lending at interest? THAT would really put a crimp in investing excess rather than immediate consumption incentives.

Or is it that no one should be paid to perform accounting services?

Sorry to break it to you, but exchange IS the profit. The transaction is where the majority of the “profit” is made. We transact because the excess things I have are worth relatively less to me than the things you have. Your excess is worth relatively less to you than the things I have. When we exchange our excess capital, then we both profit because we both have compositions of various things that are more desirable than the composition and quantity of the things we used to have.

The vast majority of wealth these days is not in things. It is in knowledge (techniques, trades, etc.) Having enough stuff (food, clothing, shelter) to exist without dying immediately is a trivial exercise for the vast majority of the world, even the places that live on less than a dollar a day. It really doesn’t take a lot to just exist. Western civilization/industrialization has made us ALL wealthy beyond the wildest dreams of our ancestors. And part of that process has been the building of trust in accounting processes and the extension of credit with reasonable expectation of repayment per terms under the law.

(Gordon Hoffman) #42

Great information. And I never believed in gold as valuable except for artists and electronic devices. And of course I believe in exchange of goods. I don’t have money that I can afford to loose (and maybe bit-coin is a way to preserve wealth). I might need to respect President Trump’s wealth using Russian money and US real estate - justly earned, I guess; but what do I know.

(.) #43

I have similar thoughts as Gordien.
However, I do not know much about Russian money.
I have invested in US real estate. Justly earned sounds good. Justly earned, to me, it would
mean that volunteer exchange. That is kind of libertarian idea.

I did not think of bitcoin as preseving wealth, but others did, and they did well.
Same thing again; what do I know.

I would still use bitcoin as exchange. My idea would be to accumulate value in physical
object and exchange it to another physical object using bitcoin. I would use the bitcoin as
a way of exchange, but I would not keep it long to preserve value in it. But others did, and
made lots of money.

Gold is a strange way of preserving money, for me. But during centuries other people
used it as such, and it became traditional way. May be, I just have to learn from others,
and accept consensus.

In the book Sailing the Farm, Ken Neumeyer writes about using silver coins as an exchange.
His reasoning is, it would be lower denomination coins than gold coins. I understand that.

I can see the necessity of exchange of goods, as thebastige (Larry G) writes about it.

This might be a good service from those who understand and have experience with bitcoin
and other crypto currencies to write here about it, as information for those, like me, who know
little about it.

(Larry G) #44

I keep a number of silver coins on hand as emergency assets. Primarily for the same reason as above- a well-known value of an amount small enough to spend easily for everyday items, but valuable enough to obtain services and good even in an emergency when currency fluctuates unpredictably.

(.) #45

The difficulty comes with keeping cash or precious metals is safe. Nothing is perfect.
It is just human life.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #46

…why is this in “engineering”

• | the comming digital anarchy | antithesis world government |

(Larry G) #47

People are welcome to try, but crime is pretty low in my neighborhood. I don’t think the ROI is there for a few silver coins, even if they can get into my 1100lb safe, past my two dogs, alarm system, and myself and wife (both armed).

It should really be a finance or business thread, but the software engineering is the original aspect that was under discussion.

(.) #48

(both armed) There you go. I would not like to disclose much about myself.


I was wondering about the ramifications of paying for labor with varyons on the French Polynesia seastead. How would that account for the daily-weekly-monthly fluctuation of the varyon?

Also, how will the whole chain of supply-logistics-etc work in conjunction with varyons?

Or, with any other cryptos, anywhere, for that matter.

(Chad Elwartowski) #50

The company will likely pay at a rate in either dollars or euros (until those fluctuate more than bitcoin or varyon) but have varyon as the final payment.

I did this with bitcoin for my salary for about 2 years. I used a service, bitWage to direct deposit my paychecks to them and they would exchange my dollars to bitcoins at the going rate.

The goal is to have it so seamless that varyon is just in the background while you may choose to see all prices (through an app or a business may have multiple currency prices, etc) in the currency you choose and you can pay with whatever currency you wish. It will just be converted in the background to varyon.

Blue Frontiers has already been paying most of their employees in bitcoin and ether. It does make things a lot easier.

The hope is that every link in the supply chain will be encouraged to accept varyon. Obviously we will push for any immediate suppliers to accept it at whatever currency rate agreed upon. But then the hope will be to encourage companies that they interact with.

Hopefully it becomes known that dealing with the seastead will require companies to step up and start using crypto.


That would make sense.

That will be a tough one and a two way street:

  1. If “I” originally subcontract with “you” for a monthly service in varyon, I’m gambling. If the varyon goes up, I’ll make more. If down, less. Why should I ever consider making less then the contractual obligation?

BUT personally I wouldn’t mind being paid in varyons for a service/job originally subcontracted in fiat (dollars-euro). If varyon bullish, of course I’ll hold :blush:

  1. If “you” originally subcontract with “me” for a monthly service in varyon, you’re gambling too.

If varyon bullish you will end up paying more (in fiat) or eventually much more (if varyon skyrockets) for the same service that was originally contracted in varyons.

On the other hand, if varyon goes ten bagger “I” will be making $$$$$. :wink:

Overall, I would say that outsourcing less from the start would be wise. Yes, it would cost more initial capital investment, but in the long run will actually save-make money.

(Chad Elwartowski) #52

Ya, as is typical with companies that accept bitcoin they tend to convert instantly to their local fiat. Overstock accepts bitcoin but keeps 10% of the bitcoin in reserve. Some companies may do a percentage and then allow some of their employees to take a percentage in their pay.

There is a tour company we’re talking to that will start accepting varyon and the owner said he would just keep the varyon as an investment.

That’s what most small businesses do that accept bitcoin since they usually only get a few people a month that pay with it, they see it as an easy way to invest.


Thank’s for the heads up!

Now, a bit off topic, I ran into a crypto called reefcoin at It’s a bit unclear to me how the reefcoin would work in saving reefs around the World (as they claim in their website).

Since you are the cryptos expert here I was wondering if you have any insight.

(Chad Elwartowski) #54

Looks like they’re trying to tap into the coral industry and use Reefcoin as the currency for that industry.

They will be taking 10% of the coins generated to go toward saving coral reefs.