A new Hope, Marinea resurrected?

(noboxes) #122

The last time i had the opportunity to tow a raft across a current was the early 1970’s on the St John’s. I could do it again, i am sure, current or not.


I agree, if using solidly build concrete docks with a high freeboard aspect ratio. But my idea for a “start up” marina in Cay Sal was to use floating plastic docks. I built a nice floating dock for a customer here in Florida using big-docks.

Can be easily loaded on a boat’s deck and assembled in no time on location. Plus they are very well built an quite cheap @ $12/sq.ft.

Don’t be silly now. We do have to build @ better living standards than the one depicted in your photos…

Also, it is funny that you’re calling my miser $100k seasteading start up capital “expensive”. Did you shop around this website? I see $15 Mil and $60 Mil so far.

How much do you want to start up on?

(noboxes) #124

Deleted for lack of intelligence.


Not quite that far. Let me explain.

I too am still talking about the above and well mentioned things. Before talking ANY MONEY, somebody have to go there and survey the whole Cay Sal (specially now after Irma wiped it out as a Cat 5 hurricane). One week will do.

Now, that will cost money too :blush: Somewhere between $6k to $9k. If I buy a boat by “then” (I’m close by Cay Sal in West Palm Beach FL), maybe only $4k.

I’m all for it. Lets go.

Its still gonna cost money and we’ll have to get “organised”.

How would you do it otherwise?


The idea to survey the whole Cay Sal islands is double folded.

First, to find the ideal location for your operation.

Second, to present the Bahamians with a serious, educated and informed proposal based on solid facts.

(Larry G) #129

People are constantly talking about their trips on sailboats through the Caribbean. @Talador was detailing his experiences just recently. As for Cay Sal:

We have a pretty good idea of what kinds of folks are there (variety from boat bums with little cash, to uber rich that have most things catered to to them). We know basically what the weather is like with trends around the year, we know what the bottom looks like, we know who claims the area and what kind of patrols they do, we know what people do in the area for work (fishing and lobstering) and we know many of the problems with that work that remain to be solved (illegal and unreported fishing, poor quality of product due to lack of preservation techniques, hostilities between individual fishermen of the various nations in the region, possible conflict with drug trade.)

All that is really needful is a person with a reasonably solid business plan, some resources, and nothing tying them to land to just go do it.

(Larry G) #131

For me, personally:

-Distance from my current location. I like the Pac NW, and I have family, roots, and a career here.
-Still financially recovering from a failed business
-I’m a seastead hobbyist/enthusiast, not fully committed to leaving a land-based lifestyle
-I’m weighing pros and cons of property in the Caribbean vs Central American mainland or islands along the mainland
-I have not yet learned to sail, being busy with learning and enjoying power boating.

I have gathered all my pieces for building an Android-based GPS/Chartplotter combo. So I expect to work on that project for our Carver next week. I also had to disassemble our radar mast to fit into our new (to us) boathouse, so I’m researching newer radar units that communicate via ethernet and Wifi to tie into my network.

I didn’t get to do any sailing lessons in 2017, so that’s on the ‘radar’ for this spring. My experience with small power vessels will be getting close to the minimum for a captain’s license sometime this year, so some professional mariner certifications may be in store. My best friend has been taking ASA lessons for certification, prepping to charter or buy a sailboat to keep in Florida (they live in Tennessee) so when they retire in 5 or 6 years they can spend half the year sailing the Caribbean.

I expect my future seasteading to be sailboat-based, and seasonal. I have a patent application mostly written for a new method of cement boat building process, so I am looking for a place to test out the process on a small-ish sailboat. I am hopeful that a very talented local carpenter of my acquaintance will be interested in helping my kit out and finish the inside of such a boat- he did the new synth teak flooring in our Carver, and it looks fantastic.

As for what can people do to get out there right now… buy a used sailboat. There are always cheap ones for sail, and almost always good deals on fairly good condition ones. Go forth. learn to sail. At least it gets you out there. You can live on a sailboat for dirt cheap, but it does have trade-offs.

(Wilfried Ellmer) #132

@thebastidge | Larry our group is offering assisted retirement plans in the Caribbean (near Cartagena) on base of a USD 98K budget - floating home… | ref |

(Bob LLewellyn) #133

Hi Larry,
I agree, we know pretty much everything that we needed to learn before going out to the Sal. However, we still haven’t broken that financial barrier. I know it only makes sense that the money would be the last hurdle but we still have to convince those with the fiances to join us. We have written hundreds of letters to everyone that we could think of but we are not getting past the guards at the gates.

Well, we sent that letter to the Bahama government office, we are now waiting for a response from them. If we could only get people to answer their e-mails, we would already be in business.

I will probably never actually get to live there. Too old and busted up. But it is a worthy project to work on, for as long as I’m still hanging around this stupid planet. I want to leave these kids a better planet than the one we inherited.

It’s mostly better, you can’t see the air anymore, computers have advanced technology and medical that life expectancy has increased by about 25%. And the quality of life has improved. I still marvel at how we can heat food using only light (microwaves). But along with those enhancements we have more than doubled the population. We still need to show them how to live at sea and be free. I think that is a good end for my generation.

We have the know how, technology, a basic plan. In my estimation we are as prepared as anyone on the Earth to create a village at sea. If the time is right, we will find the right people to make it happen, if the time is right.

(noboxes) #134

Deleted for lack of intelligence.

(.) #135

Congratulations! Small power vessel experience is still boating experience.
I have some sailing experience in the Pacific (So-Calif area), and in the GOM (Gulf of Mexico).

(Bob LLewellyn) #136

This was our home for a couple of years. Does navy, merchant marines, shrimping (one season) and working the barges count?


There is a lot of information about Cay Sal online. Where do you thing we got it from? None of us visited Cay Sal,…

True to a certain extent Larry. I’d rather do the “seasteading coop” we were talking about instead of the “one owner” operation.

How can seasteading be a “one owner” operation? That’s dictatorship…

  1. There are not too many people who REALLY want to seastead.
  2. Most of the people who want to seastead have very different views about what seasteading is, therefore there is very little consensus of HOW to seastead.

That didn’t happen in what,…12-15 years by now? Well, Blue Frontier pending,…

I’d rather convince those with little finance to join us. It might take less then 10 years,… After all, they just want a better life for them and their families, rather than a hefty ROI.

No, LOL. Because there is nothing there yet, and not because Cay Sal is not “desirable” or there is something “wrong” with it.

There is nothing wrong with Cay Sal. Au contraire my friend. The potential is HUGE.

Imagine living permanently at the tropics, feet away from blue holes and best diving sites, feet away from pristine coral reefs and best snorkeling sites, feet away from the best wahoo, tuna, snapper and lobster fishing sites WHILE making some money with LESS stress, anxiety, mortgage payments, rent, politicians, traffic, commute, work, bosses, parking tickets, (or any other of the thousands of reasons to go seasteading).

I don’t see nothing wrong with that picture. In Cay Sal, or Bora Bora, or Belize, or in the middle of the Pacific (probably the most desirable since you can actually “govern” yourself).

(Bob LLewellyn) #138

Well, not quite, I’ve been there and I can describe it for you. It looks just like every other part of the ocean, lots and lots of water. If you are paying attention, you’ll notice that the waves are a little smaller and the fishing is better but that’s about it.


Please, continue.

Is there room service aboard the seastead? Do people smoke pot there? How often do UFOs visit Cay Sal? Is there any nudity?

(Larry G) #141


(Larry G) #142

Pretty much just like it would be anywhere else with the same depth.

Who knows? Who knows what tomorrow will bring anywhere?

Why would they be? Burning garbage on one’s yacht seems dangerous and unlikely. shooting guns and playing loud music… who cares? Moving 2 miles away is a trivial exercise.

Who cares? FYI, the official language of the Bahamas is easily determined to be English with a simple web search.

Just like anywhere, there are fishing regulations. These are not difficult to determine.

Umm, what?

Not often enough to be a matter of concern to the yachting and charter community.

(noboxes) #144

Deleted for lack of intelligence.

(Larry G) #145

No, my point is that most of the questions are irrelevant to the question of “can it be done” and “Do I want to do it.” There are certain assumptions that are valid 99+% of the time. No, Bahamian law enforcement will not be confiscating the contents of your liquor cabinet. About community: My point is clearly that an existing community doesn’t have a problem with the Bahamian law enforcement. The data point you’re asking for is easily extrapolated from that.

No, shooting at dolphins doesn’t “happen all the time”, it’s rare enough to be a non-issue.

As to what the potential customers might be like, that is an entirely different question to “If you park in different places overnight, what will your neighbors be like in the morning at those places?” A business plan, even for an itinerant business is not as random as “park somewhere obscure and hope customers wander by”. We do have long range communications these days, and communicating a schedule and rendezvous locations, even taking appointments is not difficult. To answer the customer question: There are yachties passing through, and there are fishermen from several nations that may need services ranging from fuel, to repairs, to refrigeration or preservation of the catch, to Bahamian and US Navy vessels (yes, they do call on civilian facilities from time to time), possible research projects that could use local support, charter operations for tourists, local cargo transport opportunities within the Caribbean and surrounding nations, mobile weather station reporting as a potential business opportunity, and probably a lot more that I haven’t thought of.

For water depths of 30 ft, what conditions would you expect? It has been discussed, right here on this forum, and surveys of the bank have been made, linked to right here on this forum. The currents generally flow from SE to NW, generally about 5 knots. About the same track as storm patterns. There are eddies around some low underwater structures, coral growth and sand deposition has predictable patterns around blue holes. The entire plateau is rather depauperate of corals in comparison to many other similarly shallow areas, either due to the weather wrecking them in storm scour or due to the consistent current.

If you want to float in 30 ft of water, make sure your draft allows for troughs in storm waves. If a major storm is coming, consider making for the lee of Cuba.

Bottom line, there are no absolute answers, but there are PLENTY of “good enough” answers. Most of it can be gleaned from cruiser fora online.

(.) #146

OK, OK post will be deleted and bla bla