A new Hope, Marinea resurrected?

(.) #101

Thank you for tolerating my views.

(.) #102

Anyways, I would like to name a way or system a name, so it could be easily distinguished from
other ways and systems. I have a bit of difficulty, because I would not like to appear grandiose or
intellectually arrogant. Though it seems to me the term ‘intellectually arrogant’ is an intellectually
arrogant term. But instead of playing word games, let me say Pacific Wave.

(.) #103

Pacific Wave: I cannot say “we” because it is just me.
I do not want to sell any property to live in, nor rent any. Though, I would like to build one for business.
It would be a kind of business coop. (coop = business cooperative)
The starting idea would be marine based agriculture.
Probably agriculture is the easiest value making process to get into.

One is fishing: catch fish and sell fish. Something easier would be to harvest kelp and sell kelp.
The difficult part with kelp might be to dry kelp and grind kelp and storage it until sale.

The coop would probably help with business licenses, basic know-how, and sales of products.
Coop would probably not buy from producer, but storage and sell to buyers and get an operating cost.

Later on, members could get into growing kelp. First it would be harvest of naturally growing kelp.
Processing products could be on a floating structure.
Processing: drying, grinding and storage. First this could be on someones own boat. Later this processing
could be done on a floating structure. Floating structures will be necessary.
A boat is also a floating structure, because it has a structure and it floats, but it also qualifies as a

There are people who come to the area, where I live, and spend time here. During winter, this place
is a warmer climate than other places. (Southern-California).
Some of these people spend time living on boats in a live-aboard marinas. Many of these people have
little chance to earn money here during their stay. For some people a kelp based marine agriculture
could provide a way of earning a living. The kelp for animal feed would be a lots of work little money
in the beginning, but it could start a marine based business. This could be later expanded to other
things such as deep sea mining, fishing, ocean pasture maintenance, … etc.
And the goal would be to move out of territorial waters of any country, into ‘Libertarian Waters’.
(no visas, no work permits, just hard work and duties in case of import of products into a country)

First I am planning to do it myself: to harvest kelp, dry it, grind it, and sell it as animal feed. Later I would
’sponsor’ other people as making this process available to get into as a coop business style of activity.
(coop = business cooperative)


(.) #104

I will probably split into another topic, and thank you for letting me start here.

(Bob LLewellyn) #105

As for making a living they could learn to trade because you can do that from anywhere. I teach people to trade the forex market in a very safe way and to use a computer to actually do the trades. Most people think that trading is dangerous and if you are speculating, it is. But trading safely, though it won’t make as much as speculation, it will provide a steady and comfortable income.

It will only make about 10% or maybe a bit more so to have a $2,000 income per month, you would need to open an account with about $250,000. Well you could open the account with say $5,000 then let it grow, both ways will work.

Living at sea will remove the US trading limitations so a person can use these safe trading techniques. The ocean village will need fish and kelp farms as well as hydroponic farms for vegetables but there are a lot of ways to make a good living once you get rid of all the government regulations.

Tell you what, it’s Christmas so for the rest of 2017, I’ll give anyone who requests my book “Robotic Investing” a free copy. We are selling it on TheSafeInvestor.com for $39.95 but I have just updated it and will release the new version in January for $59.95

E-mail me at bob@marinea.org and give me the e-mail where you would like me to send your (PDF) copy. (Not accepting requests on forum, e-mail only)

(.) #106

I think, many of these people do not have $5K to invest on the market, much less
$250K. The marine environment probably does not have enough infrastructure to
provide activity of such. But what do I know, it might. And they might have money to
invest. I would let the market determine the activity and the prices.

I am not planning, right now, to enter into ‘robotic investing’. I would like not isolate myself
from robotic investment either. You know my email address, if you send me a copy, I
thank you.

And thank you anyways for posting your idea.


(.) #107

Not many people are flocking to the new hope of Marinea.

(noboxes) #108

Remember when Marinea was a quiet little marina made of a jackup platform and couple floating platforms and docks, with no land contact (except the underwater “land” the few stilts sat on and anchors grabbed into), the little pieces owned by different people, and no investors? Remember when it wasn’t a single company, when additions were made as needs were identified? Remember when it was moveable and reconfigureable if there was government oppression of the plan, or if a better site was found?

I’m not sure, but i think that is when people flocked to Marinea. Maybe i am wrong, maybe it’s only my opinion.

(Bob LLewellyn) #109

That’s still my vision. But if we stilt up from the bottom, we will need to have some agreement with Bahama. Only completely floating is beyond the authority of any government.


And no investors,… You just described AT LEAST $1 Mil. of hardware,…Is it just gonna pop up in Cay Sal overnight??

Own by different “people”,… Called investors.

Just to set foot in Cat Sal will cost AT LEAST $100k, on a very small scale, that is. 60’ commercial boat @ $50k and the rest for diesel, food, booze, pocket money.

(noboxes) #111

Could you itemise the $1 million out for me please? I previously described four pavilions with docks attached, i didn’t think they’d be $250k each. Each would be owned by someone who has some need of a 50ft dock and floating pavilion whereever they live when not vacationing in Cay Sal Bank.

Not going to “set foot in”, or on, just float. The island is merely backdrop for nice pictures, and where the tourists will play. Initially, and prolly for many various reasons, as a seastead or business, not going to touch the island, except as a private person just visiting.

You mentioned a 60ft boat, what’s it for?

(noboxes) #112

I am not going to work for investors, banks are bad enough.

And you can bet any floating marine store out there owned by investors will be charging too much for everything. No one will buy, they won’t make a dime, there will be no repayments on the investments, and that’s why they aren’t investing now. Right? Just think it through.


Really?? You didn’t “think”? You want to go “seasteading” without “thinking” ?

Really??? Dahh. Getting “around”.

(noboxes) #114

I had to “suspend disbelief” when i read your post (like the one you said individual steel plate rusts from the inside out), it involves not “thinking” because come concept is so jarring and inconsistant with reality that the whole facade collapses into the methane digester. Not even you can justify $1 million for four families (however you define ‘family’) on a fishing trip, or a small floating dock costing $250k.

It’s your belief that no one goes to Cay Sal Bank on anything smaller than a 60ft commercial boat? And you gave a quote of $100k to pay for the trip for one person?

And yet, there’s youtube videos of people out there who don’t look like they have $100k to throw around just to spear a couple of lobster. Did all those people who boated over from Cuba at $100k each also? Or is that only when traveling north-to-south? How far does this delusion go?


How much do you think all that is going to cost to built and transport to Cay Sal? You tell me and I will comment…

No, I didn’t say that and I didn’t give a quote for a $100k for one person,…Again, where do you get this nonsense?

What I said was:

The boat is your lifeline there for supplies and transportation for the operation YOU described above (small marina & 4 pavilions-whatever a “pavilion” is)

Unless you have a different idea to keep that operation going there in Cay Sal…

(noboxes) #116

There was no goal to keep it going. There’s no telling what will be needed or how often, because there’s nothing like it out there now. Unless there is, and no one told me. If there’s an agreement for four individuals to show up with compatable docking, and each is self sufficient for a month, and each is capable of boating back to the Fla Keys for supplies but they cooperate and combine trips, and share resources, share and compare notes, make their own decisions, etc etc. Also known as “no one put you in charge”, and “this is not a corporation setting up business, and we have our visas!”. Somewhere between two and ten boaters just tow their docks (so they don’t need to stay in the boats the entire time) and spend a month or two or three there.

You are hung up on doing nothing until someone drops a $million in your lap, and i am hung up on not starting with a $million debt which must be repaid many times over. You seem ok with trolling for debt for decades, i am hung up on getting underway next weekend. You seem to want to have billable hours and items from day one (and with investors to repay, you need the money), i am hung up on having a vacation and learning the situation and if i get a $10 donation from someone using the dock and bbq on the pavilion one nite then it’s all good (i’ve prolly made my fuel costs, if i’m smart about it).

What i described doesn’t cost anyone $100K to “set foot in Cat Sal”. And i cannot imagine an investor paying $100k to fund a fishing vacation for four people to the Bahamas.

So, different strokes for different folks.

(Bob LLewellyn) #118

Technology is never the problem, we spend most of our time arguing over which technology is better. But the original idea was to copy how western towns were established and grew. Someone would establish a little road-stop rest along a trail where one could get food, shelter and water. You could just pass right by but most would stop to see what each village had to offer. Somewhere along the line, one village would appeal to the traveler and he would find his new home.

So what we need is a store for supplies, a fueling station for boats, (western towns had livery stables). Restaurant/bar, and transportation for people and supplies.

You need to set up as some type of corporation or you won’t be able to open a bank account or pretty much do business in the US. Sorry to have to throw reality into the mix but we will have to deal with it at some point.

(noboxes) #119

So without knowing how many customers you had out there today, or where they prefer to be, you are going to wait till someone will fund the construction and delivery of floating

in any pseudorandom location, fully stocked with stuff, a chef and resturant/bar labor staff and living space for them, business licenses for Bahamas and USA, without knowing what anyone out there wants?

Can you point to ANY location on the Cay Sal Bank and tell me how many potential customers were there today? Lets say there were 10 boats at that spot, what were they in the mood to buy? We don’t know they wanted to buy anything, but if they want X and all you have is A thru W, they aren’t buying. What did the market there want to buy? How much of it?


Please, be my guest to tow your own dock to Cay Sal over the Gulf Stream. Or from the Bahamas. Or from Cuba. And let me how it went.

Do u have a boat? Have you ever operated a boat before?

Wrong. The needs of seasteading have been figured out way before you have joined this convesation.

Wrong, again. I am not hung up on anything. I am just stating the facts that seasteading is expensive.

As for the “doing nothing” comment.

Well, you are free to believe anything you want about people that we don’t know much about… But, I would advise you to be a bit more careful about such remarks… I’ve been around here since TSI inception, I do have a solid background in boating, marinas management and operations and I have gained quite a bit of a grasp on seasteading, by now.

And I have no problem w/that. Be hanged out on anything you want. That’s all that seasteading is all about! Freedom. Build that dock with a bbq. Build that pavilion. Donate it for $10/night.

(noboxes) #121

The way you wrote that leads me to believe the same hull with an outboard on it makes for a far better trip than pulling it with a rope? If that is the case, so much the better, for then one does not need a tow boat! That’s a great point, Octavian! As far as i know, no Cuban refugees made it from Cuba to Cay Sal, and then to Florida, by hiring a tow boat! Just hang an outboard onto the dock itself!

The millions of Asians living on boats will be happy to know how rich they have become, based on your words here.