A new Hope, Marinea resurrected?

(Bob LLewellyn) #1

A New Hope

I have had some time to think about seasteading and the hindrances we face to getting something in the water. I may have thought of a method were by this might happen. The following is this idea in a very raw state.

Marinea failed because we could not get people interested in joining something that has never existed. It was just too abstract. We were stopped by the lack of funding. Wil’s projects are hampered by the same problem. In fact, that has been the one thing that has so far defeated seasteading as a whole. The catch 22 is we need exposure or advertising to get peoples interest and we need peoples support to get started with the projects or we need one well off benefactor to take on this project. Once something tangible exists, people are more likely to support it. In plane language we need something solid and tangible for people to invest in and we need investors to create something tangible.

The barge was not tangible enough but it can easily be part of something bigger. The answer came to me while reading the Pitcairn thread. People already believe in islands and they know we can easily build something safe, so we may have been guilty of selling the bacon instead of the sizzle.

We know that we don’t need an island or land to make a actual floating city but the majority of people out there haven’t thought that far along so they think we are nutty. What if we all worked together to buy an island in the Sal Bank from the Bahamas and build a marina from that. I can show that as far as a mile out from the islands it is only 5 foot deep. We can build a break wall to protect the marina as high as we like. The island would give us a place to build floating craft for living in, right on site.

Step one we get a quote for one of the islands,
step two we sell foot print size lots to investors that understand that they own the lot so they can live in a boat in a protected marina with stores and restaurants available on boats and barges tied to the docks.
Step three, we make money from the lot rents and businesses and begin our community at sea. That of course is not the pilot project that we started with but it will be easier to sell.

We have talked about building on the ocean floor under the water and building on the water but what if we started on an island as part of the existing Bahama government. The total population of the Bahamas is about 329,988 from the world fact book July 2017. It would be probable that we could grow bigger than that so we could eventually out vote the native population. To prevent that from happening, the Bahama government would not have any problem considering the residents of the Sal Bank area as a self determining entity and under it own laws. If we ever get to the point were we have a major disagreement with the home government, we could just succeed.

Of course we don’t talk about succeeding or any problem with the government that doesn’t yet exist but for the libertarians among us, there is still some hope. What we need is a quote on an existing island in the Sal Bank with the stated intention of building a marina for boats to dock at when visiting the area. It’s just a business and every government wants new businesses. The island that we own will be a good place to put up a communications tower or tie off floating re-transmitting balloons. From an existing structure we can build the long awaited floating village. I didn’t realize it but we may have had the ability to spring board this all along. I think a real project like this can get funding. What does everyone here think?

One other thought, we already have an international business corporation set up and paid for. The Marinea Corporate framework is available if we want to use it. Plus the Marinea website is still paid for and has some following. If we wanted to do this that is.

(Bob LLewellyn) #2

From Wikipedia,
Sal Bank;
The Straits of Florida separate it from the United States mainland and the Florida Keys (Key Largo is 100 km (62 mi) to the north). Administratively, the bank and its islands are part of Bimini district,
Number of islands‎: ‎96
Total land area‎: ‎14.87 km²
Country‎: ‎The Bahamas


That’s what Seasteading Outpost Belize was all about but definitely Cay Sal is a better location. Closer to “business”, as you said.

But I wouldn’t buy an island there. Anyway “buying” any island is just a long term lease,…

There is no reason that the Bahamians won’t agree to a “sea zone” format where “we” get the right to operate there in exchange for (as I said before) marine ecosystem conservation of Cay Sal and (most important) a small cut of the profit.

Try the “cheaper version” first before buying. Nothing to lose,…

(Bob LLewellyn) #4

Agreed, all islands will be under the sea before too long but we just need the tangible aspect to sell the idea.


That Elbow Cay (where the abandoned lighthouse is) has quite some good elevation. It will be awhile before submerged,…I hope. :slight_smile:

I agree. But a written agreement with the Bahamian Gov to operate will be tangible enough to any investor, I think.

(noboxes) #6

Why would you not want to succeed as soon as you can? Isn’t that the whole point of most businesses? Are you going to be a failed business intentionally until you have some disagreement, and then succeed? How is that process helpful?

My understanding of Marinea on Cay Sal, from reading this site, was to build legged platforms as a marina (with hotel, stores, restaurant) on the sheltered side of an island in the shallows, as a foreign-owned business in the Bahamas, without claiming ownership of the island. It was afterwards, when Mr Ellmer talked you into a concrete submerged saucer-shape, sitting on the bottom in shallows, but exposed to the deep ocean, that you failed. Please correct me if i have erred.

(Bob LLewellyn) #7

I wasn’t able to follow what ever you were asking but if you wanted to know about the Marinea project go to Marinea.org it’s pretty well laid out there.

(Kim Cowdroy) #8

I think Bob meant the island may ultimately “secede” from the Bahamas, (while all the while succeeding).


Like in a couple of thousand years? KEK You do know they grow right?


I have been to the Cay Sal area for a couple of weeks. The reason they put a light house there was so that ships could avoid the area. . . It is great for diving and big old lobsters (my wife likes the little tender ones). The currents are a little tricky and there is very limited protection. It was possibly the worst anchorage in my years in the Bahamas.

Little Ragged Island just to the east, could be way better. Potential harbor, marina, airport, communications and a ~ two million dollar price tag.

Remember the first three rules to real estate, Location, Location, Location.

(noboxes) #11

Just out of curiosity, Cay Sal Island is 100 acres of “nobody lives here anymore”, according to Wikipedia. Why does no one live there? Why would they change their mind about living there if Bob parked a barge there to live on? Especially that   barge, since the previous owners failed to make any money with it and are selling at a loss. Can anyone convince Forexbob that to put more people (with Bahamian voting rights) on 100 acres, to outvote the native population, means 3,500 people per acre (approx 12 sq ft per person)?

(Bob LLewellyn) #12

Key Sal is about 300 acres or roughly 0.5 sq miles. The old shelter that you find there was from the 1950s when a group of wealthy people made a club there. After Castro took over Cuba Howard Hugh moved to the Sal Cay. It was a private club so there was no business concerns. There is already a popular fishing attraction to the area, but I think the real attraction to move there will be economics and freedom, just like the old west…

Noboxes, I perceive you to be a nay say-er and I will not be answering any of your questions. I don’t want you with us and I will not show your type any respect. Now that you know my opinion of you, please go to another thread where you will be welcome.

(noboxes) #13

Ok, 36 sq ft per person, citizens with voting rights, so they can succeed in seceding.

I believe the rest of my post stands, there must be some reason for people to live on the barge vs the island, and i am hoping you can enlighten me. The island isn’t that far from anywhere else on the Cay Sal Bank, and like you said, and i agree, it has it’s attractions. I think one attraction is you can possibly lease it as an anchor for a huge floating marina dock for a lot less financial liability than the barge, giving you far more room, and greater stability in storms.

Seriously, you may be able to ground your own small personal barge on the island as a dock, seasonally, without much trouble, tomorrow, which is a lot faster than you can get an investor to toss you $2 million. It’s a start, you could supply Talador and his friends with electricity, internet, ice, and wine, as proof that a store there is viable. Or scale back your plans for a huge population and pick a smaller island. Octavian is in the area somewhere where to lend you a hand. Grow from there. Feel free to ignore me, Bob, but i would like to see someone succeed on that bank.


Terror in the Bahamas

Good little marketing brochure right there.

lobster too

I had no idea there are tons of videos on the Cay Sal Banks

(noboxes) #15

Talador, can you tell us what happens if we do not clear customs in usa or Bahamas, and are found on Cay Sal, or reasonable suspicion of being in transit to/from? The bank may be close to the tip of Florida, but the round trip twice to Bimini from the Keys must be a real downer. Does Cuba ever send patrols out there?

(.) #16

Good luck Bob! (Post must be … twnety or more characters )

(Chad Elwartowski) #17

Selling real estate would be a much easier funding strategy than selling shares or selling membership.

The Bahama government really isn’t that bad. When country shopping I read through many countrys’ constitutions and concluded that the Bahamas was the most liberty oriented of any I read through. The kicker being that it is expensive to get citizenship and that owning property was expensive. In order to even apply for citizenship you need to be a permanent resident for at least 10 years.

We could certainly request a Special Economic Zone from the Bahamian government like Blue Frontiers did with French Polynesia. Maybe even ride their wave of success if they raise a large amount of money for their project.


More like $23.5 Mil.

OK,… On the other hand, in a different thread you said:

“I could probably list a dozen reasons to avoid doing exactly that and can’t think of a single good reason to stop there (Cay Sal), except for an emergency.”

So,…should we assume that spending a couple of weeks there with your wife was an “emergency”??

Also,…you “can’t think of a single good reason to stop there” but it is “great for diving and big old lobsters”??

Rationality doesn’t work that way, dude.


The Bahamas have no income tax, corporate tax, capital gains tax, or wealth tax. What would be the advantage of a Special Economic Zone?

(Wilfried Ellmer) #20

@ForexBob |

• what is the DIFFERENCE to the first project version ?

• How does this project version AVOID what killed the first one ?

• What is the learning curve ?

• Why this version will be attractive for investors when the first wasn´t.

• Is the “give me 15 Millions to buy a used steel barge and start the floating future of humanity in the Bahamas” investor elevator pitch still on the table ?

• Is there more focus on “solving the seasteading technology bottleneck” and unleash the real estate paradigm shift potential of seasteading in the early project phase.

• What is the analysis why the first version failed according to @ForexBob in the first place ?

• What is your view now on @tamenta (Theodore Amenta)´s viewpoint ?

What do the other ex marinea team members | @Elwar | @Matias | @MarkStephan | @ellmer |
say about the project …


Seasteading is the REAL ESTATE DEAL of the century waiting to be discovered by the mainstream investor…

It is not about politics, not about the Bahamas, not about sandy islands and Governments...it is about investment and ROI...and the core technology to settle the global waterspace and get a foothold in it.